Many organizations are considering the best infrastructure for deploying virtual apps and desktops. The choice is essentially between on-premises and cloud solutions, or a mix of both. Is on premises or cloud better than the other? On-premises virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) gives IT departments control over their environments — but requires daily maintenance and can be complicated to scale up. Cloud computing desktop as a service (DaaS) models reduce IT complexity and physical infrastructure costs.
Each infrastructure has its advantages and disadvantages. Determining which model is best for your business will depend on your company’s needs and a few other factors. In this post, we’ll look at some of the most important elements to consider when deciding between cloud computing vs. on premises.
Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Bill Sutton
Co-host: Geremy Meyers
Guest: Monica Griesemer
Many organizations are considering the best infrastructure for deploying virtual apps and desktops. The choice is essentially between on-premises and cloud solutions, or a mix of both. Is on premises or cloud better than the other? On-premises virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) gives IT departments control over their environments — but requires daily maintenance and can be complicated to scale up. Cloud computing desktop as a service (DaaS) models reduce IT complexity and physical infrastructure costs.
Each infrastructure has its advantages and disadvantages. Determining which model is best for your business will depend on your company’s needs and a few other factors. In this post, we’ll look at some of the most important elements to consider when deciding between cloud computing vs. on premises.
Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Bill Sutton
Co-host: Geremy Meyers
Guest: Monica Griesemer
WEBVTT
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Andy Whiteside: Everyone and welcome to episode one hundred and fifteen of the Citrix Session, Andy White Side. This is actually a part. Two uh last week we did. We did part one. But let me introduce my guest for you real quick. I've got uh Bill, Son, who's on with us? Bills, the Director of Services consulting services here in Tigra. Hey, Bill, you're busy.
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Bill Sutton: Ah, yeah, pretty darn busy, Andy for sure.
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Bill Sutton: I don't know If you noticed when we were going through this stuff this morning. What the what? The utilization was last week, but it was over one hundred. So that's a that's really good and really bad in some ways,
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Andy Whiteside: all right, so i'm no math, major. But
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Bill Sutton: I guess I in theory, if you go more than forty hours a week on the consultant. Then it does hit one hundred plus it does. That's how it got there.
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Andy Whiteside: Well,
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Bill Sutton: that's a good but yet still problem to have right. Yes, it is so. If you're listening in this podcast, and you would like a job doing, consulting in all things virtual desktop and dazz, and Euc and workspaces, I know a company that would entertain all of you.
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Bill Sutton: So do I.
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Andy Whiteside: I made a couple of phone calls for you after our management meeting uh looking for the next uh the next great integral resource. And look, it's a great place to work. We need to touch a lot of stuff. We have a lot of fun, and you're part of a team. I got to do the math, bill I that we're over a thousand hours of experience. Oh, i'm sure.
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Here.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, it's crazy uh got Jeremy Myers with us. Jeremy also runs a team of uh engineers. You guys, we still call them sales. It took me nine years before I decided to change that over here, and we now call them solutions architects. But in almost every conversation,
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Geremy Meyers: acronym, or sales engineer on me, and i'm like no, we don't call it that. You know what there's a There's kind of a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a there's a there's a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a there's kind of a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a there's kind of a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a There's kind of a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a there's kind of a bucket of terms that kind of all relate. So you know there's a there's a There'
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Geremy Meyers: you know. There's a solutions consulting all the things. But we all answer to all of them.
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Yeah.
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Andy Whiteside: Well, yeah, the the long answer, the technical question that's causing the issue with the sales challenge process. Then that counts.
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Geremy Meyers: You got it,
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Andy Whiteside: and that's why we do this. So that's why we bring on our guest hosts. Ah, mon and Chris, we're here to talk to us, and we try to get in ahead of those conversations, and hopefully, maybe start more conversations. But it's not from a lack of education and knowledge. It's because You're more interested in the topic, Monica. How's it going?
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. Going? Well, thanks, Andy, excited to be back on the podcast here. Your local product, marketer from Citrix just kind of sliding in and out when possible. But now I excited to join for the part two. I heard you all had a party without me, and I just couldn't miss the second half of it, so wanted to jump in. Add a little bit more color, commentary, and and have these conversations so excited to be here.
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Andy Whiteside: Well, that's my fault. It's just uh this one popped up on our radar before we did the podcast last week. You're like. Let's do this one, and then about ten seconds into it. I always for that invited Monica. Hold up!
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Andy Whiteside: Ah, but we
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Andy Whiteside: we got to at number two, So that's good. Um. Give us a little background on the block since you wrote it. Why did? Why was it important to write this book?
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. So
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Monica Griesemer: on the product marketing side of the house, and just the product side of the house. Here at Citrix we have a lot of internal conversations on why people want to use our products right? Why does it matter to them? And we use conversations like on-premises versus cloud different cloud computing,
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Monica Griesemer: You know, thinking about What is Vdi? What is? Does we have these conversations internally all the time? I'm. Sure you all can attest to that, and that's the basis of what we do, and what comes out externally a lot is how you execute. Why, it matters to you which is great. But we kind of looked at each other. We're like these questions that we answer internally these conversations that we have internally. Why, Don't, we make them external facing? Because if we want to know this stuff, and we're talking about this stuff.
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Monica Griesemer: I'm: sure
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Monica Griesemer: customers partners are doing the same. So it's it was really a process, and a team effort of putting pin to paper and just getting back to basics a little bit so excited to kind of get to spearhead with other colleagues of mine. Some of these basic questions that you know the Internet wants to know our customers want to know. So that's kind of where this spawn from, And some of the most basics is on on premises versus cloud. We've been having over the past years the four years that I've been here
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Monica Griesemer: Vdi versus Dazz. What is this? And and then the basics are are on-prem versus cloud. So that's kind of where it's spawned from was just getting back to basics.
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Andy Whiteside: And in your mind when you were writing this, were we talking about on-premises being the control plane and cloud being the control plane, or was this the the workload um on premises versus the versus the cloud, or was it a little bit of both?
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Monica Griesemer: It's a little bit of both, I think, in recent years, how we have defined. It is more where the control plane lies, and but also where your infrastructure lies. So I think, before on on part one you all were talking about
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Monica Griesemer: um security, and having to, you know, purchase those servers and having control of it so obviously. That's the infrastructure itself. But when we talk about it a lot. Um, we we think control plane. There's different ways to slice it a little bit of both, but probably control plane Heavy is where I was coming from on this,
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Andy Whiteside: and I just brought up the Gartner page, where I think Gardner has really defined all of this desktop virtualization, whether it's a the desktop or apps, or in the cloud on premises as a uh, an overall solution space. And then when you get specific around as a service, then it comes into um, you know the the hosted platform, and maybe the infrastructure as well in the cloud? Or did I just totally screw up the way,
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Andy Whiteside: trying to teach the rest of us to talk.
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Monica Griesemer: No, I I think you're definitely on the right track here and and There's a million terms out there. I think we're We're trying to get out ahead of the the dazz term, because it means different things to different people. There's also the concept of like, so jazz and compasses like you're saying,
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Monica Griesemer: the cloud-based control plane and infrastructure there's also some concepts of hybrid dazz. So, having the control plane in the cloud with infrastructure on-premises, which we'll get to kind of at the bottom of this vlog at the the
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Monica Griesemer: later half of this conversation. But no, I think Jazz is kind of all encompassing with with cloud computing which I think we'll get to today,
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Andy Whiteside: Jeremy Bill, and he uh, now that Monica's had a chance to tell us what the blog was about any additional input or questions.
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Geremy Meyers: I mean, i'll just start by saying that I feel justified because we were right.
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Geremy Meyers: What do we say last week, Bill, that it was a little bit about for sure. But you know, I think there's two things that Monica said Number One. Um, as you know, I think maybe five years ago, maybe even two years ago. Um, you know, dazz is a term that you thought of in terms of almost like a like a virtual desktop vending machine like you put a quarter in. You got a desktop right? So you know, I think, about the
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Geremy Meyers: quote unquote dazz vendors from a few years ago, where that was kind of
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Geremy Meyers: you know what it was. So desktone Exactly. This was kind of the solution I was thinking of. So you know there was like Vdi. And then there was like jazz and desktone was kind of like the
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Geremy Meyers: the des um. But I think what's unique about Gartner is They've they've divined to find kind of a spectrum of dazz. Now, um is some of it being customer on some of it being vendorone. And really, there being some sort of, you know, Greg area in between. And so I think that that's definitely new.
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Geremy Meyers: Uh. And then the second thing was,
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Geremy Meyers: we. We say the word cloud, but I got to be honest. Many of my conversations with customers. We spend the first fifteen minutes trying to deduce what that customer means when they say cloud
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Geremy Meyers: and and making sure we are articulating. You know correctly kind of what our version of what a cloud is, in fact, in a lot of cases we lean towards, you know, a service, so it's not like Citrix Cloud. It's the that service or the endpoint management service, or one of these services, because I think that's a little bit clearer.
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Geremy Meyers: What that might mean as opposed to you know. Listen! What do you. What do you think about Citrus Cloud?
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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, Well, let's let's jump into the big three right? The big three
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Andy Whiteside: um the granddaddy of them. And with aws really kind of leading the way. I'm just in the in the early days where I was infrastructure as a service where, you know. If i'm being Snarky. It's just somebody else's computers in their data center that you access as if it's a server. Well, you know what I do that, Jeremy, when's the first time
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Geremy Meyers: you the cloud, either professionally or personal, and they don't have to be I as but just in general.
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Geremy Meyers: Oh, my, okay, Um. So i'll just say this when you put that last caveat on. Of course my my head went right straight to like an azure. But first I use the cloud a one thousand nine hundred and ninety five prodigy. I used the cloud for email back in the day.
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Geremy Meyers: Let's just focus on you for a minute, because you can do exactly where I want to go with this. Did you have any idea what those email servers look like and how you connected to them Data center, and you know what hard drives they are running. Did you have any clue? What? That was?
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Geremy Meyers: No idea.
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Andy Whiteside: And if you were gonna try to have whiteboarded out for somebody. You would have probably just drawn this big cumulus cloud of stuff, and said, It comes from there.
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Geremy Meyers: I've gotten very good at drawing cumulus clouds to represent services. Yes,
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Andy Whiteside: and and at the end of the day that's what the term cloud comes from. But I talk to people in technology daily that have no idea why we call it the Cloud, or, better yet, class, and that's where it comes from. It. You got something that you needed, as this from something that you didn't know or didn't want to understand.
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Andy Whiteside: Let's just draw a cloud, and we'll assume that's where the rain comes from.
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Geremy Meyers: I mean it's, you know. We like to say sometimes things are a black box. It really sort of a white cloud is what it is right. It's just. I don't know what it is. I don't necessarily care what it is. You know all I want to out of it is a service.
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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. And then you probably uploaded your pictures to some other cloudy thing, and that that point you realize, Hey, that's not a cloud that's cloud. I got a cloud over here in my pictures and a cloud over here.
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Geremy Meyers: So I don't know where you so I don't know where you sit on the the Google apple spectrum. But you know what's interesting about that is there's a lot of folks that don't realize they use the cloud right, because when you take a photo with your iphone. It automatically goes to icloud whether you know it or not. So it's even becoming more transparent than it used to be
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Geremy Meyers: at the moment. This morning I take a picture of something on the side of my house, and I was almost going to email that picture to myself. But by the time I set my phone down. I went to my one drive, where my photos backed up to to send it to myself. Kind of sort of it was already there, and I was like, Oh,
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Andy Whiteside: that's how I like that.
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Geremy Meyers: Yep, Yep. You nailed it, especially when you have three boys and their photos from their ipod show up on your feet unbeknownst to you, and that could be a good or bad thing
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Bill Sutton: right there, right?
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Andy Whiteside: All right. So let's all right. Let's get the big three. Um, Monica, since this is, you're the guest host, these three that you have documented.
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Andy Whiteside: I ask pads in software. As a service. Do you want to help define those, because pretty much everything falls into one of those three buckets
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Andy Whiteside: with some evolution.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, I I think you you hit the nail on the head with infrastructure as a service. It's the the servers Vm. Storage everything that you would primarily host on premises yourself, but hosted somewhere else, and I I love these stories of like the cloud right? Because I was.
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Monica Griesemer: I'm born into basically more of a cloud era. Not I'm not that young. But you know the the vast majority of my life. It's like, Oh, yeah, it goes to the cloud, sure. And until I enter the field of technology I still thought it was
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Monica Griesemer: high in the sky, you know, to send it somewhere. But yeah, it's It's those obviously those infrastructure. It's hosted somewhere. There's these big server rooms. We all know this, so that's that's mostly infrastructure as a service to have those servers offloaded somewhere else. Then you go into pas, which is platform as a service which is more of that. You guessed it on demand platform. Um! Where sophomore stuff where development can happen like deployment delivery testing applications and that
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that that sort of a deal.
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Monica Griesemer: And then um I see rolling up aws here definitely. Um aws is hugely developer-friendly, and and a great platform as a service option. And then, lastly, we have Sas on the list. So software as a service, and that's kind of
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Monica Griesemer: everything we know and love of a subscription-based service that you can access via web browser updates and maintenance are are included so I mean we've got anything from consumer facing the netflixes of the world any type of I don't know my fitness
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Monica Griesemer: like whatever. Everything. I was having the discussion this weekend that everything is sas everything is subscription. No matter what you run into on our side of the camp, we've got
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Monica Griesemer: all of the services that that we offer, so I mean, and then daz is kind of in that realm of desktop as a service. So those cloud-based desktops that you can offer on demand. Um. So those are the big three. Let them trace their roots back to these three.
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Monica Griesemer: There's like Das or dazz like I heard Device as a service and desktop as a service, and everything can be tied back to where they fit into one of these three original place. Right? I totally agree.
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Monica Griesemer: Yep. These are. These are kind of the the of
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Monica Griesemer: all of those other substrains.
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Monica Griesemer: And and Monica, as you started to talk, you said you were born kind of in the cloud air. I had this Epiphany to myself when that, when that will really be applicable, is when your birth certificate becomes an nft.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, I engaged myself backwards a little bit too much, but I mean think of
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Monica Griesemer: the true generation. Z crowd. I don't know if the birth certificate will become an ft, but probably pretty darn close. I would not be shocked when you know anything we do is not
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Monica Griesemer: physically a a part of us are physically like tangibly owned by us. It's somewhere else, and that's a that's a whole different ball game
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Monica Griesemer: that's in all the things they would solve if your birth certificate was a digital thing, and you could just expose anybody to what you wanted to to securely the inverse of that would be somebody taking advantage of that. But this, yes,
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Andy Whiteside: to get such a security card at the end of the day. Maybe it would be more secure. It would just be have to be secured differently than the way it is today.
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Geremy Meyers: Well, and it prevents those moments where you wake up in a cold sweat. And you're like, Where is my birth? Certificate? Right where you're like? Where in the world. So if it was just in this proverbial cloud somewhere, it's on the blockchain somewhere where it is
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Monica Griesemer: probably
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Andy Whiteside: Hey, Bill, anything to add to the idea that these three of the nucleus, the granddaddy of all the
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Bill Sutton: No, I mean, yeah, these these absolutely are. And like you said, You know, there are a lot of offshoots of this like as dir as other,
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Bill Sutton: you know, as a service type of offerings, and, like Monica said, a lot of things are really everything that we are dealing with now is going to subscription. You know the the idea that you pay for capable Tv, and which was a subscription. And now you're adding Netflix and Hulu and Disney and all these other services onto that that you may or may not have gotten before.
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Bill Sutton: It's just examples of things in society that are going to more of us on as a service model.
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Andy Whiteside: I don't know about you guys, but I've never seen a Netflix Server.
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Geremy Meyers: No,
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Bill Sutton: Now that
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Andy Whiteside: on Netflix
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Monica Griesemer: and Bill you, said de Raz, can you define that one?
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Monica Griesemer: You are as a service disaster, not a disaster recovery. That's what I thought, which is integral offers from the perspective. And if you want to go really see what it is, It's just a bunch of new panic servers in our cage in a co-op.
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Monica Griesemer: Nice!
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Andy Whiteside: Ah, but and I answer my I to my talk about this last week when I was in Canada. I mean, that's that's what the world wants. That's what the world needs. We don't need to be building out data centers with stuff in it that we buy and maintain. We want somebody to have it available for us, and be able to be held accountable for making sure it's there when I need it
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Andy Whiteside: the um while I've got citrix folks on with me um citrix
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Andy Whiteside: desktop as a service daz which used to be se bad citrics virtual app and desktop service. Where does it fit into these three?
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Geremy Meyers: So it is. It's platform as a service, so it's past, you know. I think it's it's getting a little bit gray, but you know, in terms of like the as you know. So it's not hosting,
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Geremy Meyers: you know. At the end of the day there is some level of infrastructure as a service. But that's from Citrus's perspective. Right? So yeah, we're hosting not in a citrix cloud or we're hosting it in some kind of infrastructure somewhere. But what we're providing to our end users to our customers is a platform as a service. So you know, these whole, these different things sort of lead over depending on your perspective. But yeah, that's definitely where the task service sits, you know. So you don't have access to.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, the the underlying infrastructure. You know it's just a service. It's a Ddc. In the cloud, if you will. It's storefront in the cloud all those all those pieces
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Andy Whiteside: can you openly talk about the I as that sits under the past.
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Geremy Meyers: Um, I don't know. I think we all know, but I don't know,
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Andy Whiteside: but but you know that there's a There's so many data centers, and maybe I think it's a public knowledge where you're where it was born. Right?
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Geremy Meyers: Um,
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Geremy Meyers: yeah, we have monitor. No, I'm almost certain that it is. And yeah, they can stop my rest. But so we operate on top of azure, and that's kind of where our infrastructure as a service sits. But also we've introduced to
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Monica Griesemer: additions on the Google Platform, where the infrastructure specifically sits on top of Google as well. But the beautiful thing about any as a service is that and what we're the root of what we're getting to is that
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Monica Griesemer: it? The end user shouldn't care and the admin shouldn't care really where it's hosted. There's some things depending on,
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Monica Griesemer: you know, compute and consumption. If you already have funds with different hyper scalars, and we can have those conversations all day long. But at the end of the day it's basically citrix as a service. It's our platform running on top of the infrastructure that we can can worry about and have conversations on. But um, yeah, I it it definitely spawned from azure. I don't think that's a secret with our
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Monica Griesemer: our relationship with Microsoft. That's over thirty years strong, but that's that's continuing to grow, and we can be more agile as a company on on where we put things to because of just the agility of cloud in general.
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Geremy Meyers: If it was a secret monica, it was the worst kept secret. It's it's been
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Geremy Meyers: right. I don't. That's why I was like I don't think it is. If i'm putting the cat out of the bag, and that would be shocking to me.
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Geremy Meyers: You know what though. Um. And you know I made this argument for years is, I think, the only reason folks are interested in where it sits is because there used to be a scenario. In fact, it's still a scenario where you know you manage all those components. And so, when they went to quote Unquote Cloud. Folks were interested like your Citrix had always been born out of the cloud,
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Geremy Meyers: you know. Listen. No one would be asking where it's sad because it was always just a service right, you know. I never wondered where Desktop sat because it was from the ground up always a service. It was always a past kind of service,
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Geremy Meyers: or actually it was probably more a sass service. But I think the only reason it peaks people's interest is because they know all the components that sit on crew, and when you run those as a service they go where others run it right. But have this been born out of the cloud. No one should care.
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Geremy Meyers: That's right. As long as it works. No one should really care so a little bit, but even they should hear that much. How about this? So I uh I pulled up uh citric dot com, which is my login to manage my environment. How about the argument that centric Dot com is a management. Sas: that software as a service it's allowed me to interact with my platform as a service, which is, you know Cedric's Ds:
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Andy Whiteside: it is all sitting on top of azure, which is I. It's all three coming together just by that onto that one web page.
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Geremy Meyers: I mean. This is the circle of life right now, Andy, you nailed it
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Andy Whiteside: that this is my management. Console as a service. Ak Sas
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Andy Whiteside: to my platform as a service which is sitting on top of I has, and I do the day i'm delivering a desktop or a virtual app to my end-user, which is desktop as a service
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Andy Whiteside: I I can't see how many people I interact with, even in our industry that are responsible for building this stuff that don't understand that that's what just happened.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, no, that's that's awesome. I think you just blue Monica's mine.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, I mean, Andy, you're coming from my job. You're just trying to
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Monica Griesemer: trying to write all the marketing materials. Here, Jeez,
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Andy Whiteside: I won't. Be writing blocks.
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Monica Griesemer: Okay, Fair enough.
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Monica Griesemer: Teacher: My literature school guarantees you. You don't want me running
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Andy Whiteside: alright, uh. So let's. So the next section we're talking about. There are often other technologies included in this to make it all happen uh starting with one of the most recent ones, which is well, actually, let me add one to virtual machines. We've all grown up and under our virtual team we're talking about true cloud architectures. Virtual machines are over as a waste of space and weight by space the waste of compute, therefore, this thing the rise of containers.
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Andy Whiteside: But we'll let you start here. Containers. What is the container? And why is it important in Iaz and paths and sass worlds?
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Bill Sutton: Well, when I when I think of containers, I think of Netflix, because every movie you spin up is an Is. A is a individual container. It's an abstracted part of of an underlying operating system, that it's really an application in some respects that runs, creates a shell, creates a bubble, if you will, in which you install install or write your applications into a container. They run within that container. They can interact with other containers as needed, but it's kind of a programming construct. If I understand it correctly.
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Bill Sutton: Um sits on top of. Obviously it's got to sit on some hardware, some somewhere in the cloud. But at the end of the day. It really is a a programmable um construct that. Ah, that developers write towards, and then those containers are then
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Bill Sutton: stitched together. If you will, to form a generalized application. They they store things, they store applications,
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Andy Whiteside: and to that you said it. But i'll just highlight it. It doesn't require segmentation at a machine level. It requires sex segmentation within an operating system.
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Yeah.
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Andy Whiteside: So I pulled up the screen for you guys, You can see any people who watch the video later. It's just this. It's just a bunch of stuff riding on top of one big thing that knows how to play well together.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah. And I think what's interesting about containers is, you know everyone. It makes the best use of the underlying operating system. So you could have multiple containers sitting on top of a single operating system. So to Andy's point, you know, if you had ten virtual desktops, guess what you have ten properties of windows all running, whereas when we talk about containers you can have several containers all running on, you know, the same Linux So we're talking about docker containers things like that. But I think what's interesting is when we talk about containers. We're usually talking about pieces of
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Geremy Meyers: application, functionality, right? And being able to quickly scale out that functionality. So you know, just to
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Geremy Meyers: so use your example about Netflix. You might have a container that is responsible for serving up the actual content. The video you're gonna watch. But we all know that what's available to you depends on where you're coming from. And so there is another set of containers which, by the way might be owned by Netflix, or it might be a service that they're getting from somewhere else.
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Geremy Meyers: It's the Where does Bill sit container? So it's doing all the geolocation services. And so now applications become this weird thing which are just buckets of functionality where maybe Netflix is just really really good at serving up the content. But now they need to know how to streamline it Where you're coming from. Maybe a security thing, and all of that together again is is completely,
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Geremy Meyers: you know, transparent to the end. User but you know, containers make it easy to like, scale up and scale down right? So if there's a brand new um. You know Tv series that comes out on Netflix. It's easy for them to scale up on the fly and then scale back down, depending on what that that consumption is. So it's a fascinating concept
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Andy Whiteside: on a video set on containers. I I it's been kind of a mystery to me, but it's come together within the last couple of years. And because it's a mystery to me. Okay, So it's not a mystery to the college kids. I talk to the day. That's all they talk about.
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Bill Sutton: Yeah, because they don't know what virtual machines and physical machines even work.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, I think it's definitely become much more prevalent over the the recent years. Um, and kind of that, that abstraction, and having everything you need in these little little boxes is easier than it's like a lightweight for school machine. So why would you deal with the full scale of a Vm. If you can just do do the container part. So Yeah, I think it's also interesting, as you say, the college kids or the the up and coming admins here.
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Monica Griesemer: You know, we're used to this container era. We're used to the Gui era. We're used to things just kind of automatically working, not to say a lot of. I mean, there's a lot of sharp folks in every generation that can make things work. But the way in which we have worked is is fundamentally different. So so yeah, I I think this is kind of the new way
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Monica Griesemer: going forward, but curious to see how it all plays out over the years
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he's.
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Andy Whiteside: So one of the things, and we will go ahead and stop it now. But maybe a different time of discussion for a different time is the stuff that we do on our physical machines and virtual machines, and it infrastructure conversations. That stuff is not on the way. And there's a whole generation of people that have never been exposed to it. So you know it comes up all the time in my world. We're going to support that in the next generation, and I do bring it up here because I think the future is what we're talking about here on the screen, not only because there's benefits of it, but because the old guys that you know, managed to
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Andy Whiteside: virtual and physical machines, and they're not to be around forever. And this the new generation is going to just expect it to be done as a service.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah, I think that's a really curious question as well, and I know there's a lot of folks who are.
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Monica Griesemer: I'm: curious enough about it. My background is not an it, but i'm grateful to be in it now. But there's still folks that are that are building and putting in the work, but it's not as prevalent right because it. I feel like a lot of
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Monica Griesemer: individuals coming up in this, even in recent years, ten, twenty years ago, in order to get anything to work, you had to build it yourself, and if we, if it's not a necessity, then well, we're not as quick to learn it, but
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Monica Griesemer: I think it will. Life is cyclical. Things. Industries are cyclical. I think it will come back around and become a necessity. I I've had conversations about that, too. Don't know how it's going to play out, but would love to conspire on it on another podcast.
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Andy Whiteside: I'll just tell you my degree. I was in a conference for me and service providers. I got brought brought into a special session, and the guy started off by saying, Anybody in the age of anybody over the age of anybody under the age of forty. In this room there was probably fifty of us, and there was only one guy who was under the age of forty, and made a service provider as a infrastructure guy. Ah is a dinosaur.
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Andy Whiteside: So if you're a young kid out there, you can still go, learn unix, and make a living, doing unix.
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Andy Whiteside: You may be the only maybe they're lucrative living.
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Monica Griesemer: Probably
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Andy Whiteside: it's where I was heading at one point in my career, and the citrix thing gotten away.
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This is
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Andy Whiteside: all right, all right. So, Monica, you've got the mic, so let's let you keep it serverless. What is serverless in terms of a technology that's impacting this? Uh:
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Monica Griesemer: So um! Looking at serverless house defined here is off offering those application components to be used in an on demand fashion to reduce those resources when not using the application. So, instead of having those physical servers on prem kind of running at all times you can use things as needed. That's that's the beauty of the cloud. So that's just kind of the quick hit definition We have here.
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Andy Whiteside: I have a question for Jeremy on that one. That's that's always been a good conversation, but in the end user compute space.
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Geremy Meyers: You really just had to budget on the maximum workloads. Let's say it's a higher education for the one of the entire semester. That's what we have to build for. It is the service really apply in a Eu C workspace's dad's world.
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Geremy Meyers: Um, i'm not going to say no. But I think where serverless computing is, a concept makes sense is, you can almost think of it like within program. You had functions
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Geremy Meyers: right where you know you had this block of code that did this one very specific thing. I mean, that's kind of where service is right. So when you look at maybe the Aws version of service, it's being able to leverage compute power from aws to run some function and have a return something back to you. Right? It's not.
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Geremy Meyers: When I look at serverless I immediately start thinking in terms of all these virtual machines are going away, and maybe that's true right, but you know it's more like It's more like functions as a service or compute, like microcomput is a service where you're just using someone else's compute to run a function to come back to you right so it could be to go back to that Netflix example. It could be
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Geremy Meyers: um. Listen. I don't want to run this service. That is the the Geolocation service, right? I just want to send something out to this this platform that's going to give me an answer, and that's what i'm gonna use in in my code. So it gets into like a really weird area of coding, which I think is just fantastic. Because now, if i'm a infrastructure provider and i'm trying to make the best use of my resources,
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Geremy Meyers: you know, Heck, i'm charging folks based on the use of those functions, and I can't remember what any of this is called it it's Lambda, or something like that. I can't remember what it is, but it's just a completely different concept um that even sort of takes containers. It makes those look a little bit outdated right? Because now we're not even packaging up things where it's just,
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Geremy Meyers: you know, functions as a service is essentially what it is,
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Andy Whiteside: I think, my comments as you are so explaining. That is Mine's kind of a legacy way. I'm thinking of it if I have scalability up and down at the clouds, and I don't have to worry about, is it there or not? It's supposed to be there serverless and on-demand functions like you were just alluding to it.
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Geremy Meyers: That's a reality. As long as we assume that there's enough compute there when we need it. Yep,
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Andy Whiteside: Bill, you want to take a attempt at this workloads comment here.
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Bill Sutton: Um! Well, sure these are application services and resources that run in the cloud, so
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Bill Sutton: might want to pass it to Monica, so that she wrote the article. But I think I think that what this is talking about is really what we were talking about earlier, which is the cold concept of I as if i'm unless i'm missing it. Monica, you want to lay in here because this is a little bit nebulous to me.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. So I think we use the word workloads internally. So we're just kind of defining it here, and
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Monica Griesemer: it could be I as but I think here it's more like what's coming from that? That is so. What more of what is being delivered? So those applications like the desktop, So those the workloads are kind of what we're talking about. So we've got the the platform itself, the Citrix platform. I'll put it in context, the Citrix platform, and then the the workloads are those virtual apps, virtual desktops, everything that's kind of buying in the background that we deliver as well. But I think workload can be to find a a few different ways,
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Monica Griesemer: but it is a bit nebulous here. Probably should have flushed it out a bit more. But I think that's what we were. I was trying to get up.
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Geremy Meyers: It feels like home, Monica, for old guys like us. It feels like home. These are machines that it's gonna sound funny that we can. We could hog for sure.
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Monica Griesemer: Love that.
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Bill Sutton: Yeah, it's like the opposite of serverless right, even though serverless isn't really serverless right?
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Bill Sutton: Well, I I think what? Uh, what is okay?
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Andy Whiteside: This is this: There's workloads that we all know we have today, and then we'll have new ones in the future, and we can rely on as paths or sas to be the underlying components that enable this to be there when we discover that next work.
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Geremy Meyers: But, Jeremy, I kind of want to edit this vlog and say it's a machine that you can hug.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, put the quote and then put the dash cherry wires.
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Andy Whiteside: I would highlight about zen temper right? We can offer I as or paths or sas to our clients, and if you really have to, we've had to do this a couple of times we'll take in the data center and let you touch the service.
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Andy Whiteside: Do that. But to some people that matters they want to see it, smell it, experience it. They want to know It's there and then never have to see it again.
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Geremy Meyers: I had a kind of customer last week. Tell me they wanted. They didn't want the cloud because they wanted to be able to
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Geremy Meyers: hold it. And I go. Okay, so maybe maybe don't use me, Monica. I can. You know I can give you my customer.
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Geremy Meyers: It sounds good,
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Andy Whiteside: all right. So the next section some of the biggest advantages of our cloud computing, which is all those three things we talked about all ago. Um versus on premises deployments. First one uh Monica will go to you. Cloud solutions enable scalability. The pandemic uh showed that a little worried at first that we were going to find out that the cloud wasn't scalable. But then I think it did stuff.
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Monica Griesemer: Absolutely. Yeah, I think this one's pretty obvious, especially with the example you just gave of being able to scale both up and out on demand. So If you've got that
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Monica Griesemer: business continuity, you need to get people working from home, you can scale up to one hundred thousand more users as needed, and that's the benefit of the cloud. You're not confined to that physical data center space, even though you can hug it and touch it and smell it. That still is a finite amount of space that you have within a data center. So if you need to, when you we talk about bursting to the cloud, adding capacity. If you
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Monica Griesemer: have a new merger anything, it's just that ability to be a lot more agile. That's the biggest underlying factor
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Andy Whiteside: without pulling out your I'm using another old term of your checkbook
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Andy Whiteside: money on something that is going to be needed.
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Monica Griesemer: Absolutely. Yeah. And And depending the the route that you go, I think that kind of goes into the next point of of cost savings as well we get there.
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Monica Griesemer: The cost is a conversation across every industry, across every business. You've got to meet your bottom lines, but you,
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Monica Griesemer: with a lot of cloud computing you can leverage more of what you need and what you actually use so obviously you can burst into the cloud, and that might be an upfront cost. But with things like
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Monica Griesemer: for all user such a, for example, with auto scale. You can dynamically scale schedule load-based scaling and just make sure you're
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Monica Griesemer: your vms and your your servers aren't running at all times and racking up costs when you don't need them to run. So I got ahead of myself there. But I think that's another benefit, too.
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Geremy Meyers: Can you imagine, if
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Geremy Meyers: you know the pandemic had happened ten years ago. I'm just. I'm thinking about Number One right? I mean the whole idea of scaling up because you had to work from home, you know, trying to acquire all the hardware required, not just the hardware, but the cooling, the power and cooling in a data center. Like all those things,
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Geremy Meyers: you know we have customers of thousands of users that send everyone home right now. How do you? How do you support that?
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Geremy Meyers: You know the supply chain would have kept everyone, you know. They wouldn't have worked for weeks just to spin that up, So It's amazing how the timing on that,
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Geremy Meyers: Jeremy apply applying all of us, you know, living from home all the time, and you know Netflix, and things like that as a service. Imagine if we had to go to the blockbuster and walk around, and like have baskets. We were done
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Geremy Meyers: well. It also apply how we're operating right now the unified communications platforms that I can. I can jump on and be physically thousands of miles away from you all in the same spot. Right? That's also sass, so enabling that it, yeah would have been a totally different story ten years ago.
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Bill Sutton: But I think I think the one of the the key things you guys have said is when you're talking about like the pandemic, and and without the cloud is the ability to scale up. If you didn't have the cloud to invest in all that hardware, so you can get it.
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Bill Sutton: Flip side of that is, when the pandemic was over and people slowly, albeit coming back to the office, you've got all this hardware that's no longer being used, or at least not being used as efficiently. The ability of the cloud to be able to scale down is equally as as beneficial as the ability to scale
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Geremy Meyers: that kind of that kind of that kind of ah leads into what you were saying, Monica, about the second part, which is around the costs. Ah as being able to scale back if you need to um, and the resulting savings that you get from that that you wouldn't get from a physical infrastructure in most cases.
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Andy Whiteside: Um! The next section talks about simplifying the management. Of this. Obviously there's a element of the end-user experience. Yes, but
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Andy Whiteside: you know, having a world where you no longer have to take that crash card around into a data center or you have to use that tool to load a you know, a six U server into iraq, which I used to just try to pick up and do all by myself from time and time. Um, you know that's that's better.
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Geremy Meyers: I mean it is so, you know. I I spent some virtual machines up yesterday and back in the day trying to request storage from the from the sand. Guy was
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Geremy Meyers: but the request in. They give me the whole nine yards right, whereas now I got three options to see the premium. Ssd: it's Standard, Ssd. Or It's standard hard drives, That's it. And then the rest happens in the background. I just get told how much it's going to cost,
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Geremy Meyers: and that blows me away even from the networking side right so I mean, I've got subnets that we've created. But man back in the day was the three-tier architecture. You know. How's that? How's that? Look what am I plugging in to give me a board Now it doesn't matter anymore. So it's it's
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Geremy Meyers: It's simplified a great. We sometimes I forget, because you know I haven't plugged anything into a switch in a long time. But, man, it's unbelievable. Just
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Geremy Meyers: the the the the flows you forget about,
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Geremy Meyers: and i'm going to assume that Jeremy's old, not Bills old enough, Monica. I'm. Assuming you may or may not be old enough, I literally to spend out. I used to stay up all night. I used to sleep on my couch, putting Cds Dvds Dvds Moppies, floppies,
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Andy Whiteside: and into a machine just to get it to a point where I could then turn around and do something to it and break it and try to try to figure out why it
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Andy Whiteside: it was miserable.
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Yeah,
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Andy Whiteside: All right, Let's uh. We have a limit. Amount of time. Cloud computing improves availability and uptime.
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Andy Whiteside: There's an argument that people think they can do it better, and and maybe to some degree in certain cases they can. But for the most part the systems in place. To keep these things up and going is better than anything you can do on your own.
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Monica Griesemer: Exactly and and just the thought of right When you work with these Major Cloud providers or any cloud provider out there, you're relying on them. But so are
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Monica Griesemer: tens of thousands, millions of other people. So we keep on bringing the Netflix example, like
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Monica Griesemer: when Netflix goes down like you're not the only one that's mad about it, uh, you know. Uh. So they they have teams of people solely dedicated to this more than what
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Monica Griesemer: any individual company could usually do on their own. So So that's the the biggest thing there, and and you've got other folks to to keep accountable for that and to troubleshoot it in real time. If something does happen, and a lot of times these cloud providers have
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Monica Griesemer: failover techniques. I know for us as well. If If there happen to be something, we have service, continuity, capabilities. Or if you're in a hybrid environment, just the concept of local host cache can keep you up and running, even if something does go wrong. So I I think that's that's huge. And having those dedicated teams.
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Monica Griesemer: It is really beg for up time.
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Andy Whiteside: Guys any additional that that's obviously i'm sure a big objective objection. You guys here is uptime. Um! And as I can point out, there's a lot of eyes on it.
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Andy Whiteside: Make sense for more people. It makes sense for a lot of people to go this route, even though they think they can do it better.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, I mean, this probably comes up at least once a week with a customer. It's sort of an objection, and you know usually the question is, you know we'll just look at your own infrastructure On how How up has it been over the course of the last year?
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Geremy Meyers: You know i'm not trying to poke fun at anyone, but you know most of our customers. Most of the engineers are our customers. I mean, they
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Geremy Meyers: the project list that they've got to manage, and the things on their plate are not focused at things like uptime all the time, right? And so, you know this is,
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Geremy Meyers: you know this is something that you know the Cloud providers. Do you know It's kind of like. Ah, this is what they do, you know, and not just that. But you know, if you're hosting work within a cloud. You know some of the tools that they make available are so simple. It's a dropdown for an availability group now. So back in the day I didn't I had to architect that sort of thing. Now it's again. You had another drop down to turn on, and that's it.
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Andy Whiteside: The other one that comes up a ton uh security is better in the cloud, Jeremy. Sure you hear that one every week. How do you defend that?
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Geremy Meyers: Um,
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Geremy Meyers: You know, when it comes to security.
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Geremy Meyers: It was a tough one, because there's multiple layers to security. But again, sometimes I ask the same question is, you
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Geremy Meyers: you know you've got teams of folks in your team. I mean, this is what they do, and it's a shared responsibility for sure. Um, you know we're specifically in the Citrix model. We are making sure we define what that responsibility is. So from a cloud perspective,
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Geremy Meyers: you know, we take care, and we focus in on sec, like the security of the platform itself. In fact, I would argue in certain cases, you know you take something like the gateway service right, you know. You know that versus in the visibility in your network versus like, say, having you stand up your own need A, Abc and have it a patch. It keep it updated,
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Geremy Meyers: You know. I would argue that we probably do a better job of that than you do, and not sounding cocky. But you know it's just less footprint right
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Geremy Meyers: in terms of what you're running versus what we're running, and what we're good at. So you know that one comes up quite a bit, you know, at the end of the day it's usually data sovereignty that matters. And so that's where we have the conversation with the customer around. You know. You protect the data, you know we'll protect the platform, and between both of us we find the model typically works.
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Geremy Meyers: Well. That's a good point, Right? You Don't. You can still leverage clouds on the cloud cloud as as as, and your crown jewels keep them wherever you want,
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Geremy Meyers: Andy. I think you actually just preface the next section beautifully
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unbeknownst to you.
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Monica Griesemer: Uh, maybe
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Andy Whiteside: I live in a world where you know i'm spending a lot of money. We as a company. We spend a lot of money to build out our own private cloud that we interact with public clouds and on premises, private data centers.
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Andy Whiteside: We hope to believe that it's not cloud. It's clouds, and sometimes it's a variation of clouds that are going to be the answer
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Monica Griesemer: Absolutely.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. And I was gonna make that point about security as well is if you have. If you have work boats, if you have infrastructure that you have to keep on premises, and you've invested in that. Keep it there.
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Monica Griesemer: We we don't block it that at all. So you wanted to reiterate that point for sure
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Andy Whiteside: or like. In my case you put it in a semi-private data center, and you put it so close to the public cloud networking wise they really don't even know It's not in the cloud, but you get the benefit of isolating on your own dedicated hardware. Maybe your own dedicated rack. Maybe your own dedicated page. If that's what you need
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right.
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Geremy Meyers: I mean, I think it goes back to your business requirements, right? So you have to understand things like the data sovereignty, right? So that will define where your work looks at. Um. Sometimes it'll be something completely money related. So maybe you've invested in data center resources that accounting needs to hold on to for the next two years before they can appreciate it. You know what you're gonna have to stay on Prom, and then sometimes it just makes sense from maybe a Dr. Perspective. So we talked about the Ras, where it's more cost effective to use cloud
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Geremy Meyers: infrastructure as a Dr. Solution, because you're not building out something on Prem, and eventually maybe it does make sense. If you guys, we deal with Amazon or Microsoft, or you can, just for everything you got and put it in the cloud again. There is an economy
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Geremy Meyers: um here that you know. You just got to understand what the the ultimate solution is. You know it's going to fit wherever you know. I've talked to customers who have moved everything to the cloud, and then moved part of it back, and at the end of the day. You know where the workloads live or where the workloads need to live, and usually the business is driving them.
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Andy Whiteside: Don't Monica, the last section. As you mentioned, I would kind of time time with us to that one is hybrid cloud Solutions for the best of both worlds just can't stress enough that clouds enable font enabled flexibility. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other. You want to kind of run through the the highlights here that you're calling out in this last section.
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. So we we jumped in here with employee experience. So I think two things that
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Monica Griesemer: I mean, Citrix does a lot of things in incredibly well. But two things that we do really well are ensuring those high definition. Hdx: Technologies are are working great at all times. Then, also having that platform having that platform as a service where you can integrate your on-premises infrastructure your public cloud, your private cloud, infrastructure all from a single pane of glass. So that's powerful for the admins we've been speaking about. The administrative experience almost entirely up to this point, but you can't lose sight of
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Monica Griesemer: the user and making sure they have everything they need when they need it. And so the great thing about Hybrid Cloud is that as an end. User I shouldn't and won't be able to tell where this infrastructure
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Monica Griesemer: is is seated. If we're saying the the admin shouldn't care, then the user really shouldn't care at the end of the day. You just need to get their workloads to work, And if you need things like
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Monica Griesemer: someone is running autocad. You need more graphics cards for them. You need that on demand. You can spin up exactly what you need and configure exactly what you need for your teams and have the flexibility to do so. So wanted to mention employee experience, because that's always top of mind for us and Hybrid Cloud let's you can figure exactly what you want.
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Andy Whiteside: Well, and at the end of the day everything we do should be about employee's. Ability to use technology, solutions and experiences should be top of mind, no matter what we're architect
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Monica Griesemer: absolutely ever cloud through how it provides comprehensive security policies,
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Andy Whiteside: you know I I use the example I brought up here on the containers right the actual title of this. And where did all the shipping containers go? Uh, if you have it in the cloud, and it's managed as part of something else. First and foremost you have an idea where your stuff's at, and you're not like. I was as a data center Administrator. At one point I couldn't tell you where all the servers were. I do add them to what happened to the retired ones, because it's too much to manage now, all of a sudden it's just
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Andy Whiteside: part of a single pane of glass
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Monica Griesemer: absolutely, and I don't think I brought it up in the in the document here in the blog, but
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Monica Griesemer: with the ability cloud computing gives a lot more data and real time to both the
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Monica Griesemer: the customer, the admin and Citrix. So with things like analytics, integration on on any front, on any cloud platform, being able to look at what's happening in real time with that data coming in has been, I know, huge for for citrix customers, and I think just this influx of data happening lets you
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Monica Griesemer: be more secure. In general, If there's an impossible traveler,
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Monica Griesemer: massive amounts of data are being downloaded, you can. You can terminate sessions in real time. So I think analytics is worth mentioning as well
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Andy Whiteside: Not a doubt. Right you can. You know where it's at. You can see what's coming and going to it. You just have to turn that on, and then at the same time enable um technologies to keep an eye on it when you're not looking
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Monica Griesemer: absolutely,
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Andy Whiteside: and next one says, ah improved it management with hybrid cloud. It kind of goes back to what I was talking about a while ago, but just having your hands on where things are and what's happening in addition to that, What else would you call out?
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Monica Griesemer: Yeah. So I think
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Monica Griesemer: the beauty of Cloud as well as that. It's an evergreen solution, too. So you don't have to do those manual upgrades. I don't know if we've spoken to that, or if you spoke about that before, so not only trying to spin up or get more data,
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Monica Griesemer: more infrastructure in real time, like you Don't, have to deal with that during disaster recovery during versus continuity, but also just the fact that you can push those upgrades through more easily. You can manage everything
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Monica Griesemer: much more seamlessly, and you get that constant roll out of new features in real time, as we've evolved. We give new features in the cloud and on-premises. But you can get them in the cloud more quickly, and it's on a rolling thunder cycle instead of having to wait
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Monica Griesemer: three months. Or if you're on the Ltsr. Track
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Monica Griesemer: two, three years to get these new packages of updates. You get them in real time, so I think that helps with it management as well as a side. Now
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Andy Whiteside: keep in. Keep in mind right there there might be an update or something that actually breaks something where you've got hundreds, if not tens, if not thousands, it's not hundreds of thousands of people using it. Somebody's going to find it much quicker than you would find it all by yourself.
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Monica Griesemer: I great.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah when we uh
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Geremy Meyers: yeah, The only thing I had here is, you know what what's been typical for a lot of customer conversations. Andy is, you know, when they have multiple data centers, and they're leveraging like on from resources, you know solely, you know, the consulting solution has always been set aside up in each of these spots, and that whiteboard gets very hard way, very quick,
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Geremy Meyers: and so like it can't be understated just how simple it is having a single spot to manage multiple different locations like That's a big deal, and a lot of folks don't realize that until they get into it. But yeah, that that's a huge one for sure.
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Yeah.
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Andy Whiteside: And then finally this last one, which we've talked about a little bit with the on-premise conversation, your your ability to reuse uh or like in my world, Maybe we end up buying what you had and moving into our data center. Therefore it's cloud cloud. Um. But there may be ways to, especially with the partner like us have ways to kind of leverage what it was, and what is put it all together.
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Monica Griesemer: That's also cost-effective and sustainable at the same time. So you don't have to ditch everything that you've already built. We're not asking you to do that. We're not asking you to kick service to the curve to start collecting dust.
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Monica Griesemer: Use them, reuse them. Put new software on top of them, you know, as
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Monica Griesemer: you get a yeah, sustainability is big, especially in in Europe. And I think, across the world now. So use what you've got. It's a powerful thing.
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Andy Whiteside: One of our best customer stories. We have a customer that we basically took over their old hardware and put it in a cage across dial from their existing infrastructure. And at that point it was cloud to them.
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Andy Whiteside: But it's not your traditional way of looking at Cloud
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right?
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Andy Whiteside: And then we back it up into our data center somewhere, and they get what they're looking for,
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Andy Whiteside: guys. I'm i'm out of time um summing this up right the last section talks about how Citrix solutions and power organizations without hybrid and multi-cloud um environments, and strategies.
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Andy Whiteside: I think that, uh, I think you'd be the first time I ever saw Citrix in the late nineties, and what it was doing to deliver something from somewhere where I didn't have to know where it was coming from. Uh, at that moment it was coming from the master data center. I know I didn't look like that was cloud. Um, it just wasn't a cloud like we see it today. But it all the same. Logic plugs
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absolutely
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Andy Whiteside: all right, Monica. Thanks for jumping on for part two. I appreciate the insight, Jeremy as well, Bill, as well as always.
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Geremy Meyers: Well, thanks for having me. It's been great.
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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, Yeah, Thanks a lot to you guys.
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Andy Whiteside: Thanks. Guys.