Citrix's Strategic Moves in Security and App Development

In this episode of The Citrix Session, Bill Sutton and guests delve into Citrix's recent strategic acquisitions of Device Trust and Strong Network, examining how these integrate with Citrix's security framework and enhance hybrid work environments. Join Andy Whiteside, Aaron Banner, Todd Smith, and Geremy Meyers as they explore the implications of these new capabilities on zero-trust architecture and secure private access. Discover how Citrix is not just improving security measures but also facilitating app development within its platform to adapt to the evolving needs of modern enterprises. Whether you're a security professional or involved in enterprise IT, this discussion will provide deep insights into how Citrix's latest enhancements can streamline operations and fortify security protocols in your organization.

Transcript

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Bill Sutton: Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 1 72 of the Citrix session. I'm your host today. Built. My name is Bill Sutton, the director of modern workspaces integra. I have some others integra folks on the call with us, as well as a couple of folks from

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Bill Sutton: from Citrix, so we'll start off with Andy Whiteside from Zintegra. Andy. Introduce yourself real quick.

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Andy Whiteside: Hey, Bill? Glad to be on love what we do. Glad we're doing these, and excited to talk about Citrix and security today, which it's always been a security that always, always been a security play for me.

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Andy Whiteside: The idea of 0 trust in my world started with Citrix.

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Bill Sutton: Yes, and in that vein we also have with us another person from Zentegra, Aaron Banner, Aaron Banner. Why don't you introduce yourself and talk about your role, and and so forth. Since it's this 1st time you've been on welcome.

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Aaron Banner: Yeah. Hey, thanks, Bill, appreciate the opportunity to join you today. Yeah, I'm Aaron Banner. I run 2 practices with integra. I run a networking practice. And I run a security practice. And I think we're here today to talk a little bit about security 0 trust app development and some key things that comes out of this. This acquisition from Citrix. Thanks.

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Bill Sutton: Great Aaron. Appreciate that. Alright, Todd, you want to just say hello to the folks.

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Todd Smith: Sure, hey? It's Todd Smith from Citrix, glad to be here again.

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Bill Sutton: Yeah, of course. Glad to have you. And last, but not least, Mr. Myers. Mr. Jeremy Myers.

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Geremy Meyers: Bringing up the rear. My name is Jeremy. It's a pleasure to see you all. And, Aaron, it's a pleasure to meet you, too, actually.

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Aaron Banner: Yeah. Same. Here.

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Bill Sutton: Yep.

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Bill Sutton: So the article we're Gonna cover today. The blog article is entitled Citrix Strengthens 0 trust security posture with strategic acquisitions of device, trust and strong network. That's a long title. But it's by Sridhar Mulaputi, who's the business unit manager, I believe, over Citrix.

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Bill Sutton: This this is a new basically talking about a new acquisition Citrix made last week of 2 companies device trust and strong network. And we're going to go a little bit deeper in in into this in terms of what these do and how they

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Bill Sutton: they augment or benefit the citrix ecosystem.

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Andy Whiteside: I was. Gonna I told you guys coming. I wasn't gonna say much, but I already see something. I gotta talk about.

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Bill Sutton: Please.

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Andy Whiteside: So what I just realized is the number one security play at Zintegra historically and still is Citrix, where people remotely access data and applications, whether they're on the network or remote, and the number one and 2 people that I need to work with in this space are Jeremy and Todd and my security. Guy just met them for the 1st time.

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Bill Sutton: Yep.

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Andy Whiteside: That's

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Andy Whiteside: the the alignment around Citrix, and and security in our world is makes complete sense, bringing us together and us going to the market, together with Citrix and security. I just realized that I I failed.

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Geremy Meyers: So Andy, to be fair. We walked into that one a little bit right? So I didn't tee that up whatsoever. But, to be honest, you know I had a meeting with a Ciso recently, where I had to convince we had to convince as an account team. We had to convince the Ciso that it was worth meeting with us by socializing. You know there's a so, you know, there's a security aspect of what it is, we do.

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Geremy Meyers: and it was completely on unknown to her. So

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Geremy Meyers: so I say all that, just to say, we're in a space where Citrix is almost out of the gate been a security solution, and yet doesn't always look good as one. So.

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Andy Whiteside: It has one job. It has one job, and that's get people access to applications and data in a high definition, user experience. And securely.

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Andy Whiteside: That's what Citrix does.

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Todd Smith: And I think I think, Andy, one of the

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Todd Smith: kind of a comment that goes along with your your statement that you just made is

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Todd Smith: security has always been considered as an add-on to that stack.

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Todd Smith: We should really look at it as securely, providing access remotely or on network to applications and data

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Todd Smith: instead of.

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Andy Whiteside: With the with the high definition, user experience.

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Todd Smith: Correct. Yeah. And it it would be great if we could say, all of those things are equal and parallel when we're making that statement. But we don't talk that way. We need to have things in a sequence.

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Todd Smith: but I think we need to change the mindset a little bit within our customer and our partner community to better understand

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Todd Smith: that we've been doing security for almost our entire time. That Citrix has been a company

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Todd Smith: and we always got caught up in the you know the one slide that, said Citrix, secure by design, that always led to conversations about. Well, what do you? What exactly. Do you mean by that?

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Todd Smith: This is, you know what we're gonna talk about in this article is really

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Todd Smith: expanding upon that, secure by design concept and really talk about. You know, this is something we've been doing for 30 plus years.

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Andy Whiteside: And I think.

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Geremy Meyers: So you know, I think

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Geremy Meyers: to be fair as a Citrix employee, I mean, I've been here 12 years now.

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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, we could do a better job of really sort of articulating where we fit into the security story of the customer. Right? So when we talk about security like that's very nebulous word, right? So most

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Geremy Meyers: customers have a layered approach to security, you know. Where does Citrix fit into that layered approach?

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Geremy Meyers: And so, understanding, like what the solution does, honestly understanding our customers approach to security. And of course.

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Geremy Meyers: you know, kind of where we play into that where where we layer, into that, you know. I think we've got a pretty powerful story, but it can't be

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Geremy Meyers: Todd to your point. We can't have the one slide that's secure by design. What does that even mean? Right? So I think you know what we do here with strong network. You know what we do from the Citrix solution really should be understanding. You know, where we fit into a customer strategy. And I think that's honestly where we probably need to get better as an organization.

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Aaron Banner: Well, and you know there's there's also the the mindset that you can. You can never stop innovating. You can never stop trying to become more secure, and you can look at it, as

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Aaron Banner: you know, just just the the latest acquisition from Citrix. You can look at it as maybe defense in depth or or defense across a broad spectrum. But I mean, what about a year ago, I think Citrix bought Uber agent you know, a European company then, just now, Device Trust and and strong network. Strong network, I believe, is a Swiss Company

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Aaron Banner: device. Trust I. You know I looked up before we came here. To to understand a little bit more about them. But you know gmbh, gmb, ha! So tells me they're a a German company. So something's happening in Europe that Citrix really likes. And and and they're pulling in. It looks to me like a lot of the right capabilities. From these partnerships or these acquisitions in order to to really drill down on on their security platform.

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Andy Whiteside: Aaron, and what I think it is is overall. The

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Andy Whiteside: the world of Citrix is secure by design, secure from the beginning, and then you factor in the ecosystem like the Igels. And now the device trusts the world, and it only compounds the security narrative.

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Aaron Banner: Right.

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Bill Sutton: All good stuff. So let's talk. Talk 1st about device trust. You know, there's some elements in this blog article that talk about the benefits of it. But why don't we talk 1st about what what it does and what it accomplishes, at least from a technical or or end user experience level. And Jeremy, can you talk about it? I can talk a little bit about it. But I thought I'd start with you.

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Geremy Meyers: Oh, man, so I'm still picking this apart. Actually. So you know, the one thing that it seems to overlap with is our security app, you know, analytics platform.

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Geremy Meyers: And the idea behind that was

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Geremy Meyers: to sort of have continual security posturing right? And this is what device trust does really? Well, so the idea is, you know, I can certainly just from a 0 trust perspective, you know, I can certainly sort of vet you out on the way in. Be fair. You know, we've got a solution. That kind of already does that with device posturing service. Right? So if you're a cloud customer and you're authenticating through the workspace. There is a front door you've got to get through in order to, you know, even get initial access. But I think the idea behind device. Trust is continual.

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Bill Sutton: Yes.

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Geremy Meyers: not so much authorization. Maybe it's authorization. This is where I get my security words mixed up. But you know, listen! If I turn off a feature of my machine like at the the firewall turned on. I turn it off, you know. That's a change in my posture. I want to take immediate action. Maybe I switch networks. I'd like for my posture to change immediately, like I don't wanna wait

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Geremy Meyers: 2 min, 3 min, 5 min or the next time I log in for that posture check to happen. So a big piece of this is some pretty granular controls that happen in session on the fly, and immediately can restrict access based on your change in posture.

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Aaron Banner: Well, yeah. And if I can chime in just a little bit on what? What I what I understand now about Device Trust. You know we've been trying to continually answer the challenge of this remote hybrid workforce. And you know this is another great way to do that. So you know in in the identity space. If you will. You've got personal entities and non personal entities.

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Aaron Banner: Device Trust really looks at those non personal entities, looks at the systems accessing your network and and granting access. And so it's not only saying that this device is able to access this network.

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Aaron Banner: but it's looking at all the things that are on that device, and you can, tailor device, trust to the devices, to the information you want. It's not just what it gives you you know, by default. But you can say, I want to know these things about these types of devices, whether that be a network device or an endpoint device, whatever that is.

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Aaron Banner: And so it's going to, as it's as it's allowing or disallowing association with the network or association or access to information. It is going to verify not only that device, but what's on that device.

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Bill Sutton: Right. It can also because I tested this out a little bit in the demo environment that Citrix is got available for us. And the interesting thing that I found about it was to Jeremy's point, of course, that you can do the device posture as you as you come in the front door but once you're in the door and you've got your you're running your desktop. If you start certain applications in the case of the demo environment. It was the snipping application. It immediately locks your session.

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Bill Sutton: And if you and to Jeremy's point, if you were to disable a firewall on it, it would do the same thing. So it's it's it's monitoring the environment real in real time and looking for changes in behavior. If you plug in a USB stick. Maybe it locks the environment, that sort of thing. You can set all kinds of

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Bill Sutton: granular policies. To provide contextual access based on what the user is doing. So there's a lot of security benefits in that regard. But it's interesting how it works.

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Todd Smith: And it's and it's really, you know, to just even add on to that.

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Todd Smith: you know. Think about this as more and more companies are addressing. Bring your own. Bring your own device

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Todd Smith: environments. Or you know, users are starting to do things like

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Todd Smith: do updates of either an application, some type of software or operating system update or even adding a plugin into a browser can have an impact on the overall security posture of that device itself.

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Todd Smith: And that's happening in the background after you've already set up your Citrix connection. Right? So we need to make sure that we have something in the in the way in the path of that user connecting into a virtual app or virtual desktop environment, to be able to detect that

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Todd Smith: there's been something that has changed.

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Todd Smith: and apply the appropriate policy associated with that change.

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Bill Sutton: Definitely. Yes, anything else on device trust in particular, either generally or specifically, about the the acquisition before we move forward.

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Geremy Meyers: Yeah, I mean, I think

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Geremy Meyers: this is a very important piece to include in the Citrix stack. And it's so important that we have made this a part of not only the new hybrid multi cloud license which

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Geremy Meyers: you know most customers are migrating to, so if you're not familiar, I know we've covered this several times. It is the the pretty standard license most customers land on this. It's a combination of cloud, and on prem licensing and several other buckets, including Uber agent. By the way, that was recently moved into this

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Geremy Meyers: do this license, but it also includes legacy das legacy, universal workspace service. So any cloud service that you you own. You will get access to this piece. That's how important product management and the business think device trust 0 trust network access is to

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Geremy Meyers: just the security stack. So I think that's important point to make. And from a layered perspective, it also includes now, like I mentioned Uber agent. So yes, I can get visibility into my environment from a infrastructure perspective. I'm looking at the vdas. I'm looking at the citrus components. Heck. I can even look at and monitor.

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Geremy Meyers: you know, components to support the citrus components like, say, your SQL. Database. But at the same time there are security events that can be monitored from an Uber agent perspective as well. So again, we talked about that defense in depth that layered approach.

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Geremy Meyers: You can see where we're bringing this into just the standard core components of that Uhmc or even Das service license.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, let's talk about the business aspect of that for Citrix to continue to be relevant. It's about taking the good and great technologies they have, and then stacking additional things on top of that. So that when somebody is trying to evaluate, okay, maybe I just want to move to Microsoft. Avd, I want to use, like some minimal product to get this job done. Yes, you could do that from a decent user experience perspective. But Citrix is stacking up high definition, user experience along with high definition security simultaneously to make the platform

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Andy Whiteside: valuable to the point where there's something in that stack that the client can't live without, and they're willing to pay for the more premium product.

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Geremy Meyers: Yeah. And honestly, Andy, to bring it home, because you usually stop me

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Geremy Meyers: whenever I get started down the path of this citrix value, and you go honestly. The number one thing, historically has been what the fact that it's multi cloud hybrid cloud.no, it's the fact that the protocol is. So that's the secret sauce right there. The hdx, the Ica piece, the user experience.

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Andy Whiteside: Sure.

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Geremy Meyers: It's thing number one. And I think what you're seeing your point is, security is just becoming more embedded and visible into the base product.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, I think what I'm saying is, yeah, the the protocol is still the one I want to pull out of the bag. If I have to go tackle a project.

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Andy Whiteside: but that's harder to sell people on. And then all of a sudden, you point out just key components like we're talking about here, and all of a sudden. Yeah, my security guy can't live without that. Let's go.

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Bill Sutton: Yeah, absolutely anything else on the Device trust piece before we move on to strong networks.

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Bill Sutton: Alright strong networks. I I'd be honest to the listeners. I this one kind of confounded me. I'm hoping that some of the guys from Citrix can really shed some light on this one. It. It looks like some sort of development environments that are enabled from from Das or from Cbad. Can you guys elaborate at all on this.

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Todd Smith: Yeah, I I think I could take a stab at this one because it's a

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Todd Smith: it. It's really dealing with the the devops right? It used to be, you know, if you think about it, you used to have programmers, and you have operations team right

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Todd Smith: in in the cloud, especially these these cloud based applications that are being constantly tweaked and updated. And things like that, that line between development and operations has really kind of blurred.

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Todd Smith: And you now have some organizations that are saying.

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Todd Smith: You know what our developers do have access to

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Todd Smith: migrate code and to do things with that.

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Todd Smith: With that shift. There's been a much more increased need for better security and better monitoring and restrictions on what they can do and how they do it.

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Todd Smith: So strong networks really kind of helps be able to kind of bridge that gap there.

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Todd Smith: securing resources, you know. So giving giving access to a developer to a secured development environment

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Todd Smith: that then restricts their ability to go up and just push things directly into production without going through a couple of gates.

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Todd Smith: Whether that be some type of authorization or some type of data and code control, or some type of kind of a automated workflow before you can actually push those things into a production environment.

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Aaron Banner: Yeah, I mean, development inherently is is very

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Aaron Banner: insecure, not secure. In general. And I I think this is something that gets lost on a lot of the developers out there. Or you know, companies that that are leading, you know, development teams.

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Aaron Banner: And so you know, there, there's there's multiple ways, multiple tools out there to solve this challenge. But it's it's clearly a challenge that that Citrix wanted to take on and and

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Aaron Banner: in the issue I think you have team is that you know, you've got someone working on, you know, a development scenario here. And with the the hybrid or multi cloud environment. You know, you may have pieces of that, whether it be tools or data, or whatever scattered everywhere, you know, you may be doing development here in azure and some some other things. Data or tools may be in aws.

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Aaron Banner: You may have some an On Prem environment that's accessing that. So you've got. You're you're doing this one action in this one place. But you're you're reaching all over the place in order to pull all that together. And so the theory behind what's what's happening here is that

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Aaron Banner: you're you're you're securing. You know that from from the start of development all the way through to to landing in a protection environment. And that's that's critical and something that a lot of organizations. Just I clearly I've seen don't understand.

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Todd Smith: Yeah.

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Bill Sutton: So is this.

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Todd Smith: Of it is, you know, the the historical. You know the horse, the historic waterfall development practices that were out there where you'd have

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Todd Smith: before you could move on to the next level or the next step. You have to go through a series of gates, or you have to go over. You know, you have to. You have to

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Todd Smith: get to the next level of that waterfall.

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Todd Smith: there was always things like software quality assurance, software quality control. And you would have configuration management team that would manage that process of

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Todd Smith: taking it from

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Todd Smith: your Qa and test environment and moving that into a production environment. And they were the ones responsible for making sure that there were things like

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Todd Smith: testing validation, making sure the libraries all match up, making sure all of those, you know, they would literally go through a checklist before they would allow that that piece of code to actually be migrated into the production libraries, and

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Todd Smith: a lot of that has changed with, you know, the agile development framework, a lot of organizations kind of merging the developer and operations teams together. A lot of the 3rd party software as a service and web based apps.

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Todd Smith: You know, there's there's some of those things are no longer in the customer's control.

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Todd Smith: And you know, strong is strong. Network is the is

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Todd Smith: a yet another tool that can be brought into play to help manage that environment.

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Geremy Meyers: One of the things we one of the things we do, Bill, is Ats is, you know, with our accounts is we're really trying to understand the use cases within the customers environment, and without a doubt

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Geremy Meyers: 99% of the time. Each of our customers has a Dev use case, a developer use case. Either a. These are internal employees or actually, what's happening more often than not, it's a it's an external contractor. So.

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Bill Sutton: Like.

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Geremy Meyers: You know, especially for an external contractor, you know. Listen! Most organizations don't want to go ship a laptop, so what do they do? They spin up a Vdi desktop right? So they'll give someone a windows desktop into some kind of environment that they've got a patch and maintain. And, by the way is more expensive.

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Geremy Meyers: then maybe some alternatives. But that's just kind of how it works today. Right? It's easy. It's very containerized. It

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Geremy Meyers: honestly present some problems because a lot of the developers like their own tools. And they're kind of stuck with whatever is included inside the desktop. Or I'm gonna create a dedicated desktop, and let a developer just kind of go nuts with whatever they need. Right? So you know, I I think one of the pieces to this is, can we help save costs by maybe providing a different modality to doing this? So you know, with strong network, they are

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Geremy Meyers: honestly customized for dev use cases, right? So typically it's either maybe a Linux virtual machine. It's typically less expensive. And it's the platform most developers use or be

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Geremy Meyers: you know, it's a container of some kind, right? And so, you know, providing the developers, the platform they tend to use with the tools they tend to use and securing it, and I'm still working on some of the details just for myself and what this architecture looks like. But that's kind of what we're going here. Can we help you reduce costs and spend for this use case that is very common in most enterprise organizations. But at the same time making it secure and sort of tailored to this user population. So I could sum that up.

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Geremy Meyers: That's probably how you can pigeonhole this now.

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Geremy Meyers: because it is sort of a different piece here, you know, it is only included in the Citrix platform license today.

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Geremy Meyers: So for organizations that are typically very large. And this maybe makes sense. Right? So for larger organizations that have dedicated teams that are very distributed lots of folks. This is probably where it makes the most sense. But that's

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Geremy Meyers: maybe the best way to pigeonhole it today.

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Bill Sutton: Well, I appreciate that. That helps me understand it a lot better. Frankly, I mean, I think the goal of all of this is to improve the management of of security around 0 trust the 0 trust type concept. Right? That's really what Citrix is trying to accomplish, based on what the article says itself. Any comments about this last sections, you know, simplifying 0 trust. With these tools.

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Todd Smith: I I think Jeremy kind of kind of touched on this a little bit with the you know, especially the strong networks piece that, you know, included in the platform licensing.

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Todd Smith: that's part of it, right? It's the the bigger overall approach towards this hybrid

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Todd Smith: 0 trust approach that we're that we're adopting. And we're we're embracing and continuing to nurture like we. You know, we we've had 0 trust before 0 trust because was 0 trust right?

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Todd Smith: and we've made some additional. You know, we've we've made some additional improvements around our security capabilities. Right? We talked about device trust. We talked about strong networks. We've talked about our overall, how those 2 fit together.

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Todd Smith: but as we segue into the next segment or the next section

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Todd Smith: we we've got to talk about. You know how we're improving security around things like secure private access.

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Aaron Banner: Yeah. And I mean.

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Aaron Banner: remember, 0 trust is is a framework. It's not a tool. It's not a thing. And you know there's i i think a lot of the tools that may be brought in are are

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Aaron Banner: really to enable policy. You know. So let's say you have a policy of, you know in in this case with the device Trust right? You want. You want a policy about how you you know what you allow on endpoints, particularly those non managed endpoints. So talk a lot about managing points. But during in this hybrid environment, I think someone talked earlier about byod.

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Aaron Banner: it's it's, you know. So now you're bringing in these unmanaged devices into your network. And you want to do that, you want to allow that. But but how do you? How do you develop policies around that? And so, if your policy says, I don't know, you know th, these things cannot be allowed on the network, even though this device can be allowed on the network. Well, now, this is a tool that helps you to

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Aaron Banner: to to enforce that policy. And so just just always remember, like 0 trust is, it's nothing but but a framework. And so and and largely.

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Aaron Banner: a lot of the technologies aren't aren't required for 0 trust. But a lot of the technologies are required in order to implement the policies that you want to define in your 0 trust environment.

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Bill Sutton: Thanks, Aaron, definitely good information. So I wanna

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Bill Sutton: double down on the next section, which is Citrix enhances hybrid work with expanded, secure private access. Obviously, what they're talking about here to some degree correct is is the things we just talked about, which is device trust and and strong networks. But I think beyond that there's some changes to Spa. Jeremy and Todd keep me honest around on premises. Data plane is that some of what's being covered here.

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Geremy Meyers: I I think it's alluding to it, Bill. So you know, traditionally secure private access has been a solution that has been entirely cloud based.

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Geremy Meyers: and you know, believe it or not. So we've got a fully on prem version of this as well. In fact, it's baked into the product you go turn it on. And more recently, we have customers who like the administration of the cloud, but would prefer sort of a data flow on. Prem so true hybrid. So we've also got hybrid Spa, that Todd, is it Tech Preview? Or has it been released? Yet? I forget where this stands.

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Todd Smith: Think it's still a tech preview.

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Geremy Meyers: Still check preview. Yeah, so this is coming again. It's sort of an evolution of this secure private access, and ultimately to take a step back, you know, historically, when Andy and I got started 11 billion years ago, this was entirely virtual windows applications. And that's it. Of course, we've evolved to include Linux applications. But you know, a big part of the story now is, how do you deliver

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Geremy Meyers: web and Sas based applications? Right? So something that typically required a web browser. And the Spa solution is actually inclusive of 2 different things. One is sort of a VPN virtual private access. Spa, access.

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Geremy Meyers: Think of it as more of a a more modern, smarter VPN. If you will, but also an enterprise browser as well, a containerized enterprise, browser that you can apply policies to. So

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Geremy Meyers: you know those 2 pieces again. 2 pieces of the layers here. Right? Can you do, Spa? Without the enterprise? Browser? Sure, you know there is a legacy VPN piece to that. But you can also pair the enterprise browser with Spa to provide, you know, things like internal access to websites without the full on VPN. What's interesting is this is the model that Citrix has gone to as employees. So

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Geremy Meyers: you know, I don't have a virtual desktop anymore. Bill, you know, I have a handful of virtual applications simply because there's some requirements from a browser perspective to support that. But

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Geremy Meyers: 95% of what I do is all from an enterprise browser that runs locally and is rendered locally.

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Andy Whiteside: And and Jeremy. The internal cost savings on that compute workload is probably off the charts.

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Geremy Meyers: It is unbelievable. Yeah. So when we went through this transformation, believe it or not, initially, the idea was to do manage devices to everyone at Citrix.

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Geremy Meyers: and at some point we did the math, and 1 80 that right, and the big driver behind that was cost.

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Geremy Meyers: And so you know, a lot of it starts with the personas. I mean, you need to understand who your users are and what they need access to.

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Andy Whiteside: Did you say you went from planning unmanaged or managed devices.

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Geremy Meyers: Manage. We were going to be 100%, manage devices.

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Andy Whiteside: Okay.

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Geremy Meyers: Across the board.

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Andy Whiteside: And that would be the so managed devices accessing a secure portal would be the check check on the Security plan.

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Geremy Meyers: Right.

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Andy Whiteside: But then you factored in user experience. But also the 3rd thing which we haven't really talked about a whole lot. And that is overall cost, and that's when and that's when the shit gets real.

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Geremy Meyers: That's when it gets real.

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Andy Whiteside: Coming from a guy with 3 laptops on his desk.

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Geremy Meyers: Well, I might be right there with you, too, but.

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Andy Whiteside: In my world. I have 3, 3 company owned laptops on my desk.

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Geremy Meyers: To be fair. These are. These are 3 different personal devices that all access resources. And I'm not doing it with. VPN, I'm doing it with a containerized browser.

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Geremy Meyers: And that is 90% of my workflow.

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Andy Whiteside: The the, the security enhancements, the browser aspect of it. Where all you gotta do is get a browser sandbox on there. That is probably open the door to. I don't. I don't wanna call it Byod, but I I wanna call it not manage devices. So you can interpret that. However, you want, but that has new life again. I think.

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Bill Sutton: Yep, certainly sounds like it.

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Andy Whiteside: Sure.

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Bill Sutton: All right. We're at the bottom of the blog article. Any other final thoughts work comments about these 2 technologies, and this article generally.

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Andy Whiteside: So.

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Andy Whiteside: Jeremy, you mentioned a while ago, you guys had to convince a CIO to talk to you guys about security.

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Geremy Meyers: Correct.

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Andy Whiteside: That's got to be a common thing in your world. Where in, if if the world saw it the way I see it?

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Andy Whiteside: They would be. Cios would be coming to Citrix.

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Andy Whiteside: asking for the technology that's been around for a long time, plus the new stuff.

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Andy Whiteside: That's just not reality. Right? We're we're usually talking to the application and desktop team trying to get to the Ciso.

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Andy Whiteside: It really should be the Ciso coming to us for this conversation. I want you to answer that, and then I want Aaron to throw in his 2 cents.

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Geremy Meyers: Alright! What was the question? One more time.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, the question for you and Todd is, how often are you getting cisos coming to you guys, or or the opposite effect of that you're having to go to Cisos and convince them even to talk to Citrix. And then I want Aaron to chime in on how he sees those things coming together.

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Geremy Meyers: So it's common. But I think it largely depends on what our relationships are, where they are within the organization. Right? So if we are like you pointed out, kind of kind of

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Geremy Meyers: primarily in the Euc application management desktop management. You know that world, then? Yes, we're making the case to go see the Ciso. But you know, when we have the relationships with the right level

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Geremy Meyers: it's a lot easier for sure. So when we're with a Vp of infrastructure when we're with

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Geremy Meyers: of the CIO, I mean, it's a no brainer, but it

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Geremy Meyers: listen. If it's with the Uc team it's looked at as a end, user productivity tool, not necessarily a security solution.

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Andy Whiteside: And is that a problem with Citrix product set? Or is that problem with the way it departments are laid out?

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Geremy Meyers: It's probably more with how they're laid out. I don't necessarily think it's a product issue, unless Todd clearly has a an opposing view here.

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Todd Smith: Well.

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Todd Smith: I I do say it's both for a couple of reasons. Number one is historically, we've always been a remote access to applications and virtual desktops

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Todd Smith: solution which basically pigeonholed us into a into a very specific

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Todd Smith: part of the organization that dealt with our with our products.

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Todd Smith: Historically, we didn't build in a lot of security

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Todd Smith: the bells and whistles that would identify us as a security company.

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Todd Smith: Yes, we have some great security tools.

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Todd Smith: not a lot of people on the Auc market understood what those security tools were. We integrated with authentication tools we integrated with.

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Todd Smith: You know, some of the firewalls that were out there. We. Oftentimes we weren't at the

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Todd Smith: the network engineering level within a lot of customers.

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Todd Smith: So that was one thing, the second piece of it is.

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Todd Smith: it depends on where the where the Ciso sits within the organization

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Todd Smith: in relation to the Euc team

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Todd Smith: or the application desktop virtualization team, or the whoever is responsible for the Citrix environment. If they have a direct line of sight with the Ciso.

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Todd Smith: they probably have heard about Citrix.

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Todd Smith: They may know a little bit about what we can do.

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Todd Smith: One of our biggest challenges is getting is getting those cisos to

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Todd Smith: to understand that we can help reduce their threat risks

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Todd Smith: and and and oftentimes, when a Ciso does reach out to us, it's after they've gone through some type of threat assessment

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Todd Smith: and said, Hey, you have a potential problem here.

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Todd Smith: You need to go talk to Citrix, and that's being done by a couple of the vendors that are out there, you know, especially the security

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Todd Smith: consulting organizations that are out there doing these threat assessments.

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Todd Smith: They're kind of pushing their customers. Our customers to have a deeper conversation with us.

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Geremy Meyers: So, Andy, I think.

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Geremy Meyers: I mean, listen, what were we originally trying to solve? For in a lot of cases it was the fact that client server applications just don't run well when you leave the office right? Like trying to do that across the VPN. Didn't make sense. So this is how we did it. And so the that was the primary reason is to make this application work well. The passive feature to that was, Oh, by the way, it's more secure at the same time. But we were trying to solve this client server piece, I mean, I still

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Geremy Meyers: go to customers these days where

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Geremy Meyers: I mean. Listen, they'll open up a VPN. To do a Citrix session right or.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Geremy Meyers: They forget the fact. This Netscaler sits at the edge and can completely air gap near the access. But we'll still do the VPN. On an unmanaged device

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Geremy Meyers: and just open up access just to do a Citrix session which blows my mind. But it just shows me that's where you know, Todd, this is where I go, all right. This sits in a different spot within the organization, right? Because someone's missing that piece of the architecture.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I want to chime in on one more thing. And I do want Aaron's feedback on this. So you're talking about the organization structure alignment. I'm also going to add one of the things like Citrix has always been. Do we tell people we're security company, do we not? And historically, it's been because, in my opinion, that Citrix didn't want to step on the toes of the natural security vendors because they wanted to work with them. Just kind of like what you were just saying a minute ago. I think we're in an era now where we just just got to flat out. Tell people, hey? You don't need that VPN anymore. We don't part. We do partner with them.

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Andy Whiteside: But you don't need them anymore. And that's, I think, where Citrix, in this version of the company is probably at or getting to be.

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Geremy Meyers: Well, I think, just before Aaron, before you speak, I think one of the things we really try to go for to that point now is, we try to be pretty like we try to integrate with most most acts, aspects, or a lot of aspects of a customer security solution. So, for instance, you're probably not using Citrix for identity. Right? You're probably using Octa. You're using intra, I do using something else. Let's integrate with that. Or you know. Listen. You need to build an environment that's air gapped in 2 or 3 different ways. You know, we

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Geremy Meyers: we sort of support that from where you place your resources like, I think, from an observability perspective, we have our own solution. But customers are looking for something very specific. How can we integrate those things together. I think that's the real value is we're trying not to be the quote unquote security solution. But just. And you know, I'll come back to where I started is, where do we layer into what you're doing today? I think we try really hard to have those hooks. If that makes sense.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. Hmm.

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Geremy Meyers: Alright, Aaron, explain it all to us. What's the answer?

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Aaron Banner: That that's a lot lot to unpack.

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Geremy Meyers: 42. The answer is, 42.

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Aaron Banner: So let let me let me see if I can go back to the the question you asked, and I think some of that revolves around the maybe the relationship between the Ciso and the CIO because I think your question was, Hey Cisco's or your point was, Cisco should be coming to Citrix, not not the other way around.

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Aaron Banner: And I think part of that problem is that you know

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Aaron Banner: it, or or network access may may have been kind of. Okay, that's the CIO's thing. That's not my thing. And and that's just that's bad business. If you ask me because at a minimum the Cisco should be interested in. What is my organization doing in the Citrix environment?

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Aaron Banner: And if if they are interested in that which they should, then it's what what is, what is happening in the Citrix environment. And so I would say, based on these acquisitions. Now, you know, I'm very familiar with the Citrix platform. But I'm not familiar with every single security aspect of the Citrix platform. So

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Aaron Banner: by this, by nature of this acquisition, I would say that App dev wasn't really secured in this way previously.

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Aaron Banner: by Citrix right? And so and so they were, you know, organizations were probably doing that outside of the Citrix platform, if

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Aaron Banner: a a smart security person was involved, and said, You can't do this in this platform right now, because we need you to do do it over here because of these reasons. Right now you can bring that workload into the Citrix environment. And

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Aaron Banner: but but if it was that way before, that's definitely something the Cisco should have known. So from a security aspect, you know, the the folks involved in security in any organization should have an understanding of what the security platform looks like, or the security posture looks like in any any environment that that they're managing. Right?

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Aaron Banner: So so yes, in in this case, Andy, I mean, I'm sure anybody who has Citrix it's it's got to be a major port part of of what they do on a daily basis, and how their workforce does their job. And so from that aspect, there's no way that me and I've been in a system role about 3 times. There's no way that I wouldn't want to have a very deep understanding of what that environment looks like.

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Andy Whiteside: But, Aaron, I would say, you're a unicorn. Most security guys think about, you know, moats and intrusion. They think about some of the legacy stuff, too, but they don't necessarily think about application, delivery and a systematic, secured, simplified method as being the number one approach to a security.

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Andy Whiteside: They don't think like application

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Andy Whiteside: delivery, and how you do application delivery. They think about the layers of the network and the traditional security plays. That's my take. Tell me if I'm wrong.

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Aaron Banner: I mean, you may be right. I you know I again you know my background. I don't think I've mentioned it here today. My background is 31 years in the United States Army, and I started my career as as a network guy. You know, I was an it guy over my career. I've been both a Ciso and and a CIO I've I've held both both roles, and often I held both both roles simultaneously, so I I was. I was both at the same time and to me. That's that's where I would want to be.

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Aaron Banner: And then I have some security guys that kind of manage security for me and report to me on that. But I own both roles. I love that. I love that posture.

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Aaron Banner: So so yeah, I mean, maybe folks are different. But, Andy, I'll tell you. I think I think the last figure I saw was there's gonna be 750 million applications developed by 2026.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Aaron Banner: Between now and 2026, 750 million different applications. So if you're a security person and that doesn't concern you.

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Aaron Banner: you need to figure it out.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: And guys where this all worked out for me. When we were talking to Aaron about joining us long term, we started talking about some of his examples, and, you know, remotely presenting or even doing like secure browser service type of technology. Whether it was specifically that or not in like combat zones was stuff he was telling me about. Yeah, that's exactly right. We we deliver the application smarter but efficient and high definition, and you know, we mitigate most of the security risk right then and there.

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Bill Sutton: Exactly.

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Geremy Meyers: It was right.

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Geremy Meyers: He did. He did he? He did say something that does resonate with me. It's the fact that listen. If you think about the product stack the solution, stack that most organizations have

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Geremy Meyers: this. You only have the bandwidth to understand what's a part of all those solutions. So it's really important for us as 1st of all, as ats is Todd myself, to make sure customers understand what they have giving the right team. And to be fair, you know it was probably a fair question from the Cso. To really understand. Listen, what does your product do? Because I'm trying to understand where this fits into my strategy. So that's a fair question. But I think it's also to to pull this thing home. Is why we need to educate

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Geremy Meyers: is integra, our partners, they know the product inside. Now, this is why we're doing this, podcast you guys understand what device trust is strong network. So again, you can take that to your customers as well. We could do a better job as an organization of socializing those pieces. Right? So I think that's what we're trying to get to

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Geremy Meyers: and we'll keep evolving and hopefully, acquisitions like this, you know, kind of throw it on the radar of the industry, too.

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Bill Sutton: Yeah, and I suspect there'll be a lot more blog type articles, Jeremy, around these topics, and we'll dive deeper as they come out. Of course. To.

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Geremy Meyers: There's a there's a shameless plug bill. I'll make a shameless plug plug for the for for tech zone. So if you are a citrix customer, and you have not been to tech zone recently. It is amazing. So there's everything from tech briefs. So, for instance, if you just want to know what the heck an Uber agent is, and you don't want to go through a big long. The documentation which reads like stereo instructions. Sometimes

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Geremy Meyers: tech zone is really good. It'll give you a brief overview. I use this a lot. There's even a guide on how to do a Poc for like an Uber agent. I'm sure we'll see things like device trust briefs, you know, strong network briefs, things like that. But there are articles being written by our product specialists all the time takes me back to the day when we used to do a lot of this, so I would highly invest or highly recommend you invest some time just checking out tech zone, check out the community.

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Bill Sutton: I'm not sure where a stereo is, but nevertheless, I got the rest of what you said. So

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Bill Sutton: there you go. Yeah.

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Aaron Banner: Yeah, before we wrap up. If I can just throw in one more thing from my perspective of how I approach what we do. It's integra, you know, is is finding ways to add value to clients. And so.

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Aaron Banner: you know, I I just made a note to someone today about, you know, somebody upgraded their Microsoft licensing, and so I was able to find some some value in that where they were able to trade off. You know something they were doing in in a separate instance for for that now. And so it's gonna save them money over the long term. And I think you you're you might be able to find that here, too, depending on what an organization is doing. So

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Aaron Banner: you know Citrix is is. Yes, it's becoming more secure. But it's also

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Aaron Banner: becoming a platform that you're going to be able to add more workloads into because of the addition of things like strong network and device trust. So so there's more things that Citrix is saying. Now, you can do this securely in our environment. You don't need to go outside of our environment like secure app dev, right? And so what we need integra and and citrix. What we need to be focused on is looking at our client base and saying, Okay.

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Aaron Banner: how are you postured? Now, what do you have right now? What tools do you have that's doing this today that we can now maybe offset and pull that into the Citrix environment. So you don't have to have that additional

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Aaron Banner: time, effort, and money going into to paying or or running, that that application any longer.

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Bill Sutton: Yeah, that's absolutely true, Aaron. And I think that that the whole concept of the packaging changes around universal hybrid multi cloud in Citrix and the platform licenses. It's it's as much, if not more, about driving adoption of new features within the the solution set and many of those features

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Bill Sutton: can can replace or or augment other products that the customers might be using and and result in cost savings as well as you know, a simplified structure versus a bunch of point products. So that's certainly one of the goals. And I think that Citrix is

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Bill Sutton: demonstrated that by these acquisitions is the ability to grow the the use cases and the security well, the use case around strong networks. And of course, the security capabilities around Device Trust is going a long way towards accomplishing that goal.

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Bill Sutton: Alright any other. Any other thoughts on these this topic today, folks, before we adjourn.

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Geremy Meyers: You know, but we always do this when we say, Hey, well, this is a short blog post, and yet we.

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Bill Sutton: I know. I know for 51 min. Right? So, yeah.

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Geremy Meyers: Listen. Security is a good jumping off point to a lot of topics. So.

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Bill Sutton: It is. Yeah, for sure. So

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Bill Sutton: all right. Well, thank you all very much. Again, as usual. Thanks, Aaron, for joining us today. It was great having you and great input, and we'll we'll do it again next time. Happy holidays to all our listeners, and thanks a lot.

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Geremy Meyers: Okay.

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Geremy Meyers: Alright. Guys.

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Todd Smith: Thank you. Guys.

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Geremy Meyers: Talk to you later.