Rising Costs, Aging Hardware, & One Smart Way Forward

As hardware costs climb and Windows 11 migration looms, IT leaders face a tough choice: upgrade or optimize. In Episode 179 of The Citrix Session, Bill Sutton (XenTegra) and Todd Smith (Citrix) unpack a smarter path—repurposing aging hardware with Citrix Elux and Scout.

Why Listen:

• Learn how tariffs and supply chain delays are impacting endpoint strategies
• Discover how Citrix Elux enables secure, seamless access to Windows 11 on old devices
• Understand how Citrix's Scout tool simplifies endpoint management
• Explore flexible deployment options, including boot-to-VDI and Imprivata tap-and-go
• Hear how NetScaler and Win365 fit into a hybrid IT model—no rip and replace required

Key Takeaway:
You don’t need new hardware to modernize your workspace. Citrix’s built-in solutions help you do more with what you already have.

🔗 Read the original blog
📅 Recorded: June 5, 2025
🎙️ Hosted by: Bill Sutton, Director of Modern Workspaces, XenTegra
👥 Guest: Todd Smith, Citrix

Transcript

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.670 --> 00:00:23.760
Bill Sutton: Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 179 of the Citrix session. I'm your host for today, Bill Sutton, the director of modern workspaces integra. We got just a couple of us today on the call company. Me is Todd Smith from Citrix Todd, do you wanna say hello to everyone and just update us on what's been going on in your world. It's been a while.

2
00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:33.970
Todd Smith: Yeah, yeah, it has been a while. Thanks for thanks for having me here today, Bill. It's been it's been a little while since we all were together looking forward today's topic, though.

3
00:00:34.610 --> 00:00:58.769
Bill Sutton: Yeah, me, too. Yeah. It has obviously been a been a while I was. I know that. We've just all been really busy, and I was on Pto last week. So hopefully, we'll kick this back in. And like we we were saying before we started the recording, gonna try to see if we can't hit the 200 mark before the end of the year, so there should be enough weeks left in the year. But you know, it's gonna depend on content and and how busy we get. So we'll see.

4
00:01:00.170 --> 00:01:14.450
Bill Sutton: So the topic for today is a blog article like usual from May the 5.th It's entitled Rising Costs Aging Hardware. One smart solution. This is a citrix blog written by Philip Benkler

5
00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:35.089
Bill Sutton: about like I said back on May 5.th So really, what it's covering here is is the concept of the the new tariffs that we're all becoming more and more familiar with. If you follow the news tariffs that are being imposed to help. For whatever reason I won't. We won't get into the politics right, right, Todd. Keep that out of this.

6
00:01:35.090 --> 00:01:41.996
Todd Smith: I I'm hoping not because, I've got both Canadian politics and us politics in my territory. So.

7
00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:44.859
Bill Sutton: Little button of the heads going on there right little.

8
00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:45.500
Todd Smith: There is.

9
00:01:45.500 --> 00:02:03.873
Bill Sutton: So, yeah, so I mean, the bottom line is tariffs or not. We are, we are seeing generally seeing hardware prices. Being pushed upwards. Somewhat uncharted. And I don't think that's going away, whether you know, obviously, tariffs do have an impact on that. But even if they're not there. I think we're still gonna see?

10
00:02:04.510 --> 00:02:09.550
Bill Sutton: see them go up. Another key element to this is the

11
00:02:09.860 --> 00:02:36.620
Bill Sutton: the transition from windows 10 to windows 11, which is not as simple as it used to be, where you just, you know, pop in your iso, or mount your iso, and then run the installer. There are some key considerations that customers must make before before doing that upgrade and this lends itself towards the kind of the 2 big things we're gonna talk about today. Todd, you wanna introduce anything here and comment on what I've said thus far.

12
00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:45.019
Todd Smith: Yeah, so yeah, so this is, this is kind of a very interesting topic, because, you know. So Phil Philip came over to

13
00:02:45.220 --> 00:02:51.986
Todd Smith: Citrix through the Unicon acquisition, where he was basically the product leader over there.

14
00:02:52.620 --> 00:03:10.899
Todd Smith: and and it's a very interesting purchase at the time. Because we really weren't in the hardware business or the endpoint business, I mean, we had dabbled a little bit in there, if you remember the raspberry pi devices, and we had an x 1 mouse for a little while. We kind of gravitated away from Citrix, being

15
00:03:11.650 --> 00:03:14.195
Todd Smith: really kind of focused on endpoints.

16
00:03:15.380 --> 00:03:24.760
Todd Smith: But now, with the addition of Unicon, and they're the 2 core products being scout, which is the management utility. And then Elux, which is the actual

17
00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:28.210
Todd Smith: hardened operating system that goes on the endpoint.

18
00:03:28.803 --> 00:03:38.479
Todd Smith: It really puts us in an interesting position to be able to talk to customers about repurposing their their old hardware or older hardware

19
00:03:38.620 --> 00:03:51.279
Todd Smith: and connect into a Vdi or Das session that's running inside the data center that is fully capable of running a windows. 11 operating system and presenting that windows 11

20
00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:57.799
Todd Smith: through the form of a virtual desktop connection to to that user on that secured endpoint.

21
00:03:58.600 --> 00:04:11.239
Todd Smith: you know, it's interesting about the windows. 11 migration. You know everyone. Microsoft has the tool that allows you to check and see if there's if your move. If your machine is windows 11 compatible.

22
00:04:11.830 --> 00:04:18.249
Todd Smith: and it's really not looking at the hardware of the machine. It's looking at the configuration of the machine. So if you have

23
00:04:18.430 --> 00:04:25.519
Todd Smith: a machine that has Tpm capabilities. But it happens to be turned off in the bios. It's going to fail that that hardware check.

24
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:31.010
Todd Smith: And really, the critical thing is, you want to be able to make sure

25
00:04:31.270 --> 00:04:38.203
Todd Smith: that your machine or your end, your physical endpoint is capable of running windows. 11. Before you do that migration.

26
00:04:38.990 --> 00:04:56.020
Todd Smith: The other piece of it is that there's a, you know, organizations that have a large fleet of desktops and endpoints. You know the cost of the so the cost associated with it and the manpower it's gonna take to migrate all of those physical devices over to New hardware is going to be pretty incredible.

27
00:04:56.150 --> 00:04:59.360
Todd Smith: And then on top of that you add in the tariffs.

28
00:05:00.610 --> 00:05:01.180
Bill Sutton: Right?

29
00:05:02.740 --> 00:05:10.690
Bill Sutton: Yeah, it all kind of comes together at one time, and really with when you look at the cost, not just of the what the tariffs are imposing. But

30
00:05:11.365 --> 00:05:18.974
Bill Sutton: you know other elements that play into that like you said certainly it makes sense to look at something like elex

31
00:05:19.820 --> 00:05:34.380
Bill Sutton: you know, obviously one of the options, you know cu customers in this instance are often facing tough choices, whether they delay upgrades or absorb the costs, or or even, you know, worst yet would be reduced head count. We we don't want to see that

32
00:05:34.773 --> 00:06:00.809
Bill Sutton: or pivot, which is what we're talking about today. And and certainly Citrix is in this conversation largely because of the capabilities of virtualizing desktops, but also as Todd alluded to there a minute ago. The fact that they are now offering a secure OS that has the capability of being able to transform existing devices and then enable their connectivity back to a citrix das environment or virtual desktops, virtual apps and desktop. See that?

33
00:06:01.407 --> 00:06:06.770
Bill Sutton: So you don't have to necessarily rip and replace your hardware to to to

34
00:06:07.140 --> 00:06:21.610
Bill Sutton: enable access to windows. 11. You can leverage Elux and their scout management utility. So there's a number of ways in the article that that they mentioned 4 different ways or 4 different elements in terms of how it works, boot to boot, to vvi.

35
00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:41.420
Bill Sutton: which is essentially where you turn the device on, and it boots right into your citrix environment and you log in directly. So you're not logging in one time and then clicking an icon. You're turning it on, you can structure it that way. But if you have the same desktops right, Todd, you just turn it on. You get a log of authentication prompt. You. Enter the credentials, and you're at your desktop right.

36
00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:51.400
Todd Smith: Yeah, so and and Bill, this is kind of the extenuating, extending out the conversation that we've had for almost 20 years about these kiosk type machines where?

37
00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:52.320
Todd Smith: Yeah, you have

38
00:06:52.320 --> 00:07:00.000
Todd Smith: kiosk in the hallway of the hospital and you walk up to it. You you enter your credentials and it brings you directly into your

39
00:07:00.510 --> 00:07:03.120
Todd Smith: application, your desktop, your Vdi, so.

40
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.730
Bill Sutton: Right?

41
00:07:03.930 --> 00:07:04.810
Bill Sutton: Right?

42
00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:32.379
Bill Sutton: Yeah. And kind of along those lines. I know that that Elox, or Unicon now, Citrix, whatever it ends up being called is working very closely with some of the vendors that enable that tap and go like Impervada so the ability to, in a healthcare setting to your point, literally walking up to the device and tapping in entering a PIN potentially. And then boom! You're right in your desktop. So certainly that's supported, and and Cape Elux is capable of that.

43
00:07:32.728 --> 00:07:50.490
Bill Sutton: Obviously, the the elex operating system is generally hardware agnostic any anything x 86. So as long as your x 86 you'll work natively. This, whether you're talking about an existing, you know, relatively new PC. Or even older devices. Have the capability of running

44
00:07:50.490 --> 00:07:57.429
Bill Sutton: running it so customers can avoid having to purchase new hardware to get this capability enabled in their environment.

45
00:07:58.010 --> 00:08:04.940
Todd Smith: Yeah. And I think the the critical thing there, Bill, is the, you know. I know we're covering this on one of the next bullet points is around

46
00:08:05.590 --> 00:08:21.839
Todd Smith: buying new hardware right now with the tariffs is really gonna have some complications into it, both from a pricing perspective as well as an availability perspective. So if we can, even if we can help customers buy some time on their calendar

47
00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:24.190
Todd Smith: to make the hardware refresh

48
00:08:24.460 --> 00:08:30.199
Todd Smith: decision. Right? We yeah, we still feel that's got that's got an immense value for the customer.

49
00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:32.580
Bill Sutton: Absolutely.

50
00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:47.960
Bill Sutton: And then, of course, the operating system that Elux leverages is a is a basically a hardened Linux operating type system. So it doesn't have the attack service that something like a traditional windows might have, particularly if it's not patched or secured.

51
00:08:48.285 --> 00:09:06.210
Bill Sutton: So it and and then they the elex. Like we, I think we talked about it on an earlier earlier blog post or earlier, podcast rather, regarding the management framework scout, which is a web based management framework that can can deploy policies and and lock down and secure these devices right? Right? Todd.

52
00:09:06.210 --> 00:09:10.139
Todd Smith: Yep, yep, yeah, absolutely. And and you know.

53
00:09:10.650 --> 00:09:14.990
Todd Smith: between it, between the management consoles the integration with.

54
00:09:14.990 --> 00:09:15.600
Bill Sutton: Yeah.

55
00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:31.459
Todd Smith: You know, being able to to repurpose and reuse those those X 86 platform endpoints. And then also the inclusion of the work that we're doing. There's another blog post out there that was recently put out around our integration with improvada to provide that.

56
00:09:31.460 --> 00:09:31.800
Bill Sutton: Company.

57
00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:43.360
Todd Smith: Functionality which is really critical in a lot of a lot of healthcare scenarios where tap and go is really the only way to authenticate for a lot of the the end users.

58
00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:53.410
Bill Sutton: Absolutely. And then you want to talk briefly, Todd, your knowledge of the provisioning process or the deployment process kind of the last bullet there.

59
00:09:53.630 --> 00:09:57.608
Todd Smith: Yeah. So so it's a pretty simple and straightforward

60
00:09:58.260 --> 00:10:07.270
Todd Smith: deployment process. If you're familiar with the way we deploy provisioning services or machine creation services, or even our application layering

61
00:10:07.370 --> 00:10:16.399
Todd Smith: in application packaging process. It's very similar. You build an image which oftentimes requires you to. If you're if you're an existing

62
00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:20.360
Todd Smith: consumer. Of this you take an image, and you

63
00:10:20.680 --> 00:10:33.399
Todd Smith: merely make a copy of it and update, provide all your updates, apply all your patches, apply all your application changes and things like that. And then you basically add that to your catalog. And then upon reboot.

64
00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:42.628
Todd Smith: the machine will pick up the the most recent version of that image to basically download and install.

65
00:10:43.550 --> 00:11:05.169
Todd Smith: the other piece of it is that you can push out to new devices as well as traditional deployment key capabilities with things like USB Keys or connecting them to a URL to do their that initial download but really the the scout platform. The scout tool really kind of gives us the ability to

66
00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:10.490
Todd Smith: provide single pane of glass or single console management for this.

67
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:35.019
Bill Sutton: Yeah. So user gets a device in the mail or or has an existing device, they just boot it a certain way, or connected in some manner. It does a boot phones home, so to speak. Scout pushes down the image. It installs the image reboots again. The scout pushes out whatever policies are needed for connectivity back to the back, to the mothership, and then you're on your merry way for the most part right.

68
00:11:35.170 --> 00:11:45.669
Todd Smith: Yeah. And and because it's a Linux based operating system. And it's a hardened Linux base. You're not pushing the entire installation bits down there. You're pushing basically

69
00:11:45.870 --> 00:12:05.500
Todd Smith: the the bin file right to to get it down to that endpoint so it can actually be booted into that. Into that image. You know, there's not an awful lot of applications that get built into that image. It's pretty much a a connector, you know. Think of it. As the you know, the the workspace app

70
00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:24.730
Todd Smith: gets built directly into there, it provides the authentication tool it allows you to sign in, and whether you're using a virtual app or virtual desktop or Vdi session or das session. It's all it basically makes it a much streamlined, a much more streamlined user experience, but also an administrative experience.

71
00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:28.930
Todd Smith: And you're not pushing a lot of data bits across the wire.

72
00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:31.120
Todd Smith: That was the huge

73
00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:36.940
Todd Smith: challenge a lot of organizations had. I mean, if you remember, back in the day with ghosting machines where.

74
00:12:36.940 --> 00:12:37.369
Bill Sutton: Oh, yeah.

75
00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:38.970
Todd Smith: You know, you would literally.

76
00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:47.899
Todd Smith: you know, see the pig going through the anaconda when it on the network perspective? Very long time to to boot and get the image.

77
00:12:48.010 --> 00:12:51.940
Todd Smith: you know, installed on that endpoint. There's no installation, really, on that endpoint.

78
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:54.220
Bill Sutton: Right? Right?

79
00:12:55.180 --> 00:13:05.893
Bill Sutton: Yeah. I remember those ghost days very well. I was recently telling my son about what I did when I got started in this business, and it was ghosting drives in white box machines. So

80
00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:08.819
Bill Sutton: I remember those days well.

81
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:11.820
Todd Smith: Even further Bill. Remember having to put diskettes in.

82
00:13:12.270 --> 00:13:13.030
Bill Sutton: Oh, yeah.

83
00:13:13.030 --> 00:13:18.080
Todd Smith: You know, a hundred diskettes that were required to boot up a windows. Server OS.

84
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:25.940
Bill Sutton: When the server OS, exactly. Exactly. So. Any other comments on on Elux basically at this point, or Scout Todd.

85
00:13:25.940 --> 00:13:29.620
Todd Smith: Yeah. So so really, it's it's 1 of those tools that

86
00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:35.990
Todd Smith: and capabilities that are included in your universal hybrid multi cloud as well as citrix platform licenses.

87
00:13:36.100 --> 00:13:44.620
Todd Smith: The benefit here is, really making sure that the the customers have the option to

88
00:13:44.810 --> 00:13:54.330
Todd Smith: still leverage the citrix applications and and desktops without having to go and replace their entire fleet of endpoints.

89
00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:55.230
Bill Sutton: Right

90
00:13:56.660 --> 00:14:05.880
Bill Sutton: and along the same lines. I'm glad you said that I was. Gonna I was gonna do that. You took the words right out of my mouth when it comes to. How do? How do the how do our customers get this?

91
00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:35.620
Bill Sutton: Get Elox? And it's universal hybrid, Monthly cloud Licensing, or the Citrix platform license. They get the entitlement to to these, to the software and along those same lines. When it comes to infrastructure, networking infrastructure. Hardware citrix offers something else that we're all familiar with, that is also included in both the universal Uhmc or universal hybrid multi cloud license and the platform license. And that's the net Scalar software, right? Todd.

92
00:14:35.910 --> 00:15:02.059
Todd Smith: Yep, that's absolutely right. The Netscalar, the Netscalar entitlement is included in both of those, and because we've shifted over from being a hardware only solution when it came to Netscaler we now have. We've had virtual netscalar appliances for for some time now. 10 years now. And and what that basically says is that you don't have to have it running on physical hardware. You can actually run it as a virtual machine.

93
00:15:02.520 --> 00:15:03.870
Todd Smith: which, once again.

94
00:15:03.990 --> 00:15:11.360
Todd Smith: if hardware is being tariffed, or we've got supply chain issues with the hardware. That's that's out there.

95
00:15:11.850 --> 00:15:38.649
Todd Smith: That's not not going to prevent you from running a net scaler to do the application delivery controller, the load, balancing capabilities, the application, firewall capabilities the VPN. Replacement capabilities as well. You can all run that on virtual machine, or basically a hypervisor of your choice. The benefit there is, you can get it up and running while you're waiting on hardware to arrive.

96
00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:54.939
Bill Sutton: Yeah, we we've seen. We've had a few projects over the course of the past month or 2 that where customers had legacy, net, scalar, hardware. And they were Uhmc. And they decided they didn't want the hardware anymore. Wanted to go. Virtual.

97
00:15:55.100 --> 00:16:05.589
Bill Sutton: All they had to do is stand up some Vpx's sometimes more than one, many times more than well, more than 2. You'll always want at least 2 as a way of kind of

98
00:16:05.730 --> 00:16:25.729
Bill Sutton: future, proofing themselves, if you will, from a hardware perspective, by leveraging the Hypervisor as the resident for the Vpx. Instances, so this is another benefit of you know they they don't have to worry about buying new hardware and paying the tariff for the additional cost and can leverage their existing hypervisor investment to to be used for

99
00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:30.189
Bill Sutton: for future proofing them and allowing them to run these things as virtual machines.

100
00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:38.350
Todd Smith: And I think the other, the other thing to to kind of bring into the conversation is, and it's certainly not, as

101
00:16:39.390 --> 00:16:48.959
Todd Smith: it's not as critical or could be as critical as the the tariff conversation is really the supply chain. The global supply chain challenges with getting chips

102
00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:56.929
Todd Smith: shipped around the world, and you know, kind of the delays that are caused by a variety of different reasons.

103
00:16:58.540 --> 00:17:00.300
Todd Smith: You know, I think there's a lot of

104
00:17:00.570 --> 00:17:05.169
Todd Smith: customers that are that are starting to bake into their purchasing.

105
00:17:05.290 --> 00:17:11.729
Todd Smith: you know, a 6 to 8 week delivery cycle for a for physical hardware appliances. That's out there.

106
00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:14.529
Bill Sutton: Yeah, absolutely.

107
00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:31.760
Bill Sutton: So this, we're at the end of the article. So it's a pretty quick one today, Todd, which we kind of knew going into it. But, you know, at the end of the day, what I would say to to our listeners is, if if this is something of interest to you, and you're coming up for renewal. Let's let's get you on. Uhmc.

108
00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:36.089
Bill Sutton: if you're on a legacy license skew and and get you access to this goodness.

109
00:17:36.440 --> 00:18:05.259
Bill Sutton: And you know, obviously with with citrix and integra we can. We can help help guide you on this and get things. Get a poc or Pov put in place, and ultimately get this, get this scaled out for you. So these are great solutions that really are part of the family of products that Citrix is now packaging. So just make sure that you reach out to us. If you, if you need anything or need any assistance. With these these capabilities, any final thoughts, Todd.

110
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:34.604
Todd Smith: Yeah, Bill, I think the the real kind of critical piece here is, you know, continue to add value without increasing the overall costs. Right? So you know it used to be, you know we buy something, and you'd have to go out, purchase it separately through through your Citrix partner or your citrix sales reps. We're now adding a lot of these capabilities directly into the product suite and into the licensing model a lot of customers already have, or that they're moving to

111
00:18:35.020 --> 00:18:44.660
Todd Smith: without having to go down the path of making additional procurement purchases to do that. The other piece of it is. Really.

112
00:18:45.620 --> 00:18:53.809
Todd Smith: we feel that it's giving customers a lot more flexibility and agility in these uncertain markets that are out there right now, where

113
00:18:53.950 --> 00:18:55.630
Todd Smith: it may be a hardware

114
00:18:56.170 --> 00:19:10.910
Todd Smith: acquisition problem. It could be a a forced update that's coming down the road for the endpoints. It could be a variety of different things. We're we're creating solutions across the board to help customers solve these business problems that are out there.

115
00:19:11.790 --> 00:19:25.409
Bill Sutton: Absolutely. Yeah. I you know. One thing that that we don't always talk about here or bring up is when you start talking about the windows. 11. Conversation. What I think a lot of customers don't realize is you can leverage

116
00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:36.650
Bill Sutton: windows 365 through the Citrix environment. And in fact, I use it every day. And and I'm using it right now. For this, podcast is I'm doing this through a windows 3, 65

117
00:19:36.860 --> 00:20:05.200
Bill Sutton: desktop that is brokered through hdx. So I'm getting all of the Hdx capabilities. I'm not doing it on an Elex device yet. I'm running it from a standard windows laptop. But Elux is on the list for me to get that. Get that in place, and the point of of bringing that up is, there's a number of ways to get to windows 11. You can. You can have an obviously have an On prem data center like you might have historically, and build a virtual machine an image. Run it through Mcs or Pbs and get it delivered

118
00:20:05.210 --> 00:20:08.560
Bill Sutton: via Elux to your end users.

119
00:20:08.840 --> 00:20:29.259
Bill Sutton: You can run it in the cloud. Leveraging the same control plane and you can run win 365, leveraging the same control plane. So there's a lot of capabilities that Citrix offers within the within the family of of the items in each package that really add value like like you, said Todd to the overall product and the overall solution.

120
00:20:29.770 --> 00:20:42.370
Todd Smith: Yeah. And I think this is also critical, Bill, where? Where? You're basically walking, walking us all through the hybrid messaging right? It's it doesn't matter where the workloads are being run. It doesn't matter how you get there.

121
00:20:42.550 --> 00:20:45.560
Todd Smith: It needs to be secure, reliable, and efficient.

122
00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:49.110
Bill Sutton: Absolutely.

123
00:20:49.430 --> 00:20:51.220
Todd Smith: All right, Todd. Any final thoughts.

124
00:20:51.750 --> 00:20:56.550
Todd Smith: No, just one of we're one step closer to episode 200. Bill.

125
00:20:56.825 --> 00:21:07.294
Bill Sutton: That's right. We were absolutely. We're getting pretty close. So we'll we'll make that a goal by the end of the year to get to episode 200 might be December, but we'll try to get there. So.

126
00:21:07.570 --> 00:21:08.539
Todd Smith: Ring in the New Year.

127
00:21:08.540 --> 00:21:18.790
Bill Sutton: Yeah, exactly as always. Todd, thank you so much for your participation and all of your your good knowledge on this podcast and we'll see? Everyone next week, hopefully.

128
00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:20.430
Todd Smith: Great. Thank you, Bill.

129
00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:21.220
Bill Sutton: Like you.